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<h1 class="firstHeading">Expo 2008/Food</h1>
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<table id="toc" class="toc" summary="Contents"><tr><td><div id="toctitle"><h2>Contents</h2></div>
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<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Current_discussion"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Current discussion</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#What_to_buy_in_UK"><span class="tocnumber">1.1</span> <span class="toctext">What to buy in UK</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Other_discussion"><span class="tocnumber">1.2</span> <span class="toctext">Other discussion</span></a></li>
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<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Reference_material"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">Reference material</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Introduction"><span class="tocnumber">2.1</span> <span class="toctext">Introduction</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Quantities"><span class="tocnumber">2.2</span> <span class="toctext">Quantities</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Flapjack"><span class="tocnumber">2.3</span> <span class="toctext">Flapjack</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Food_in_the_tackle_store"><span class="tocnumber">2.4</span> <span class="toctext">Food in the tackle store</span></a></li>
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<a name="Current_discussion"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Current discussion</span></h2>
<a name="What_to_buy_in_UK"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">What to buy in UK</span></h3>
<p><i>This is from Djuke's email sent 29 Jun.</i>
</p><p><br />
Curry paste --&gt; am lost as to how much
</p>
<dl><dd>I think 2 of the giant Patak's jars is what we normally go for. I was in possession of 1 of these jars, which I've left in the expo food cabinet. It is about 70% full. Since it's a relatively small expo, I would go for one more. The one I put in the t-store is Tandoori, so get something else- Rogon Josh perhaps. -<a href="/caving/wiki/User:Aaron" title="User:Aaron">Aaron</a>
</dd></dl>
<p>Oatso --&gt; 20 each (i.e. on avg people do 50% caving, if avg person stays 3
weeks that's 10 days, with 2 oatso's per morning) * 20 people = 400 and we
probably have some left(?)
</p>
<dl><dd>I put a bunch of Oatso in the expo food cabinet a few days ago (before the t-store session that edvin organized) which came from Ollie Betts. If I had to guess, I would say 20 packets, some very nice flavours. -<a href="/caving/wiki/User:Aaron" title="User:Aaron">Aaron</a> 21:38, 29 June 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
<p>Peanut butter --&gt; 15 pots (or 2 large ones)?
</p><p>1-2 serving green dragon type Instant FLAVOURED noodles --&gt; 350?
</p><p>Powdered cheese sauce?
</p><p>Can you get tubs of right type of hot choc out in Austria?
</p>
<dl><dd>By "right type" I think we mean that it only needs water rather than milk- i.e. already has powdered milk in it. -<a href="/caving/wiki/User:Aaron" title="User:Aaron">Aaron</a> 21:39, 29 June 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
<p>We have some dried veg do we need to get more?
</p><p>The Tortellini appears to be only available from 1 supermarket (according
to Martin I think) so should we get some here if we are relying so fully on
tortellini for topcamp meals.
</p>
<a name="Other_discussion"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Other discussion</span></h3>
<p>Small update: I currently have Olly Betts'; cash and carry card (as it's not much use in New Zealand!).<a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ed259" title="User:Ed259">Edvin</a>
</p><p>Just got a propper set of scales in a sale, one with a big bucket on top to allow all the stuff for a loaf to be measured in one go. This will make making bread much less messy. --<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Frank&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Frank (not yet written)">Frank</a> 13:12, 27 June 2008 (BST)
Ps is the bread maker OK, I can't remember????
</p>
<a name="Reference_material"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Reference material</span></h2>
<p>Rescued from last years expo preparation wiki, as it looked useful:
</p>
<a name="Introduction"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Introduction</span></h3>
<p>Expo food is bought in the UK if it makes sense considering:
</p>
<ul><li> the time needed to prepare it
</li><li> the cost and availability differentials between Austria and the UK
</li><li> the feasibility of transporting it
</li></ul>
<p>Luggage space is at a premium, so it only pays to transport things that are too expensive or difficult to get in Austria. Don't go mad!
</p><p>There are several categories, and sometimes it makes sense to spread the work over several people:
</p>
<ol><li> Top camp food
<ol><li> Ready mixed <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/years/2004/recipes.html" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/years/2004/recipes.html" rel="nofollow">dinners</a> based around rice/pasta/TVP &amp; dried vegetables
</li><li> Breakfast supplies such as Oatso simple, tea, musli
</li></ol>
</li><li> Cave food
<ol><li> FlapJack
</li><li> Chocolate bars
</li></ol>
</li><li> Special supplies
<ol><li> Pataks <a href="http://www.pataks.co.uk/products/index.php" class="external text" title="http://www.pataks.co.uk/products/index.php" rel="nofollow">curry paste</a> (N.B.: paste, not sauce)
</li><li> Yeast for the breadmaker
</li><li> Two bottles of whiskey (reasonable stuff) gift for the toll road
</li></ol>
</li></ol>
<p><br />
</p>
<a name="Quantities"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Quantities</span></h3>
<p>Jenny calculated what food was used during Expo 2006 to aid future expos in knowing how much food to buy. Expo 2006 was probably somewhat atypical (very small expo, lots of new-to-expo people) but it does at least provide a start point. It also relies on the correct numbers of things having been written down - I think that they haven't for choc bars.
</p><p>Per Person per Top Camp Night:
</p>
<ul><li>0.8 top camp meals
</li><li>0.8 cup-a-soup
</li><li>1 flavoured Oatso
</li><li>0.5 plain Oatso
</li><li>2.4 pieces of flapjack
</li><li>0.9 instant noodles
</li><li>20g of custard powder
</li><li>30g of hot chocolate
</li></ul>
<p>On average people spent 44% of the nights at Top Camp (though this ranged from 24% to 58%).
</p><p>--<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Frank&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Frank (not yet written)">Frank</a> 20:12, 2 June 2008 (BST)=Some helpful facts=
</p>
<ul><li> There is a cash &amp; carry in Salzburg. Hilde might lend you her customer card (needed to use the shop?).
</li><li> Austrian musli is sold in small, expensive packets in local shops. In the past we have cut cheap Tesco Value Musli with nicer Tesco own brand, but does it make sense to cart such bulky stuff across Europe?
</li></ul>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>it is pretty cheap in Hofer (the Austrian Aldi) - there is one in Bad Ischl. If you do get it in the UK, Asda Smart Price muesli seems better than Tesco Smart Price. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:JennyB&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:JennyB (not yet written)">JennyB</a> 03:11, 27 June 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<ul><li> Booker cash &amp; carry (branches all over the UK, including Cambridge) will let you shop with them (thought they are not open to the public as an ordinary shop) but:
<ul><li> You need a letter-head to prove you are a university club
</li><li> You need to fill out a form for a day permit at the office as you go in, then collect the food, then take it to the checkout, then pay at the pay window.
</li><li> Do one big trip - it's not a 'pop in' sort of place
</li><li> Some foods have more VAT than others
</li><li> They are very useful for certain top camp meal ingredients:
<ul><li> bulk (multi-kilo) packs of dried onions
</li><li> big jars of dried mushrooms
</li><li> and most importantly: the essential tubs of dried cheese sauce, dried curry sauce and bolognaise sauce
</li></ul>
</li><li> Tesco/Lidl own-brand chocolate bars are better value than Booker Mars bars. Similarly, Tesco Value Oats for Flapjack are better value than Booker's Quaker oats.
</li><li> When buying drinking chocolate make sure it's the just add water Cadburys stuff. The add milk stuff is somewhat impratical at top camp, and it dosent work with dried milk.--<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Frank&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Frank (not yet written)">Frank</a> 20:12, 2 June 2008 (BST)
</li><li> Have a quick scan of the price per Kg in Tesco, some things arn't cheaper when VAT is added on, although they do come in bigger packets and it's convinent.
</li><li> You'll probably need transport!
</li></ul>
</li><li> Other useful food places include:
<ul><li> Arjuna on Mill Road for Peanut butter in bug (2kg?) tubs
</li><li> Nasreen Dar on Histon Road for Pataks curry paste (not sauce!)
</li><li> Health food shops for TVP/soya mince (mince rather than chunks). The price varies widely, so shop around.
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
<a name="Flapjack"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Flapjack</span></h3>
<p>Earl's flapjack recipe:
</p><p>In order of melting &amp; mixing:
</p>
<ul><li>500g Stork margarine
</li><li>500g Billingtons dark brown molasses sugar
</li><li>4 large swirled desert spoons Tate &amp; Lyle golden syrup
</li><li>1/2 tsp salt
</li><li>250g Tesco value mixed dried fruit
</li><li>1kg Tesco value oats
</li></ul>
<p>Pressed and smoothed into two A4 trays lined with baking parchment, and baked at 150 degrees Centigrade in a fan oven (175 if no fan?) until (approximately) just the edges and rasins turn darker (i.e. about the time it takes to mix the next batch...)
</p>
<dl><dd>Either the 150 degrees is a typo, or our oven is a lot more pathetic than Earl's (which is definitely possible). The last two years we did the flapjack at about Gas mark 7, which is roughly 220 degrees C. Otherwise they took about twice as long. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:JennyB&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:JennyB (not yet written)">JennyB</a> 03:08, 27 June 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>Some tips from an email from Earl.....
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>I used A4 trays (which originally contained sponsorship fudge from Thorntons). There used to be a lot in the Tackle Store - at least 8 were clean enough to use. I lined the trays with baking parchment - doesn't stick and keeps the trays easy to clean.
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>I had a big pan and did two trays at a time. Each tray (a bit over 1kg) was cut into 15 pieces, each nearly square. The trick is to cut them when the flapjack has cooled a little (so it doesn't fuse together again) but before it sets solid. When cold, I did not remove the parchment, just slid the whole A4 slab into a large freezer bag and folded &amp; sellotaped the top shut. With a clean preparation area and if well sealed and kept dry, spare flapjack can keep over the winter.
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>With at least 8 trays, you can have one pair in the oven, one pair being prepared and two pairs cooling off. Get a system going and you can really churn it out - and soon run out of flat surfaces! I've done 48 trays in two or three days before now, but that's quite intense.
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>Hope this helps. Good luck.
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>Earl.
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd>We found that dark brown sugar &amp; golden syrup is almost identical to white sugar &amp; a treacle/syrup mix. The later is quite a bit cheaper. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:JennyB&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:JennyB (not yet written)">JennyB</a> 03:08, 27 June 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
<dl><dd>If you don't have a huge saucepan a wok works well too. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:JennyB&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:JennyB (not yet written)">JennyB</a> 03:08, 27 June 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
<a name="Food_in_the_tackle_store"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Food in the tackle store</span></h3>
<p>Mostly out of date, but probably ok&nbsp;:)
</p><p><br />
</p>
<ul><li>1.5 tub cheese sauce powder
</li><li>1kg mushroom soup powder
</li><li>2.25 kg leek/mushroom soup powder
</li><li>2.25 kg minestrone soup powder
</li><li>14 * oatso packets
</li><li>6 medium tubs salt
</li><li>24 jars pesto (180g each)
</li><li>12 cup a soup packets
</li><li>1/2 tub tandori paste (1kg?)
</li><li>400g curry powder
</li><li>400g pepper
</li><li>20 stock cubes
</li><li>650g dried onions
</li><li>1.5 kg lentils
</li><li>various sauce mixes
</li><li>1 large tub hot choc (add water)
</li><li>1 large tub hot choc (add milk)
</li></ul>
<p>Also found some measuring spoon type things and soem trays for flapjack making.
</p>
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<h1 class="firstHeading">Expo 2008/What do I need for Expo?</h1>
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<p>This is mainly copied from <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/kitlist.html" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/kitlist.html" rel="nofollow">the survex site</a>. Feel free to add, delete, update and comment.
</p>
<table id="toc" class="toc" summary="Contents"><tr><td><div id="toctitle"><h2>Contents</h2></div>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Clothes"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Clothes</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Essentials"><span class="tocnumber">1.1</span> <span class="toctext">Essentials</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Extras"><span class="tocnumber">1.2</span> <span class="toctext">Extras</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Camping_equipment"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">Camping equipment</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Essentials_2"><span class="tocnumber">2.1</span> <span class="toctext">Essentials</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Extras_2"><span class="tocnumber">2.2</span> <span class="toctext">Extras</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Caving_equipment"><span class="tocnumber">3</span> <span class="toctext">Caving equipment</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Essentials_3"><span class="tocnumber">3.1</span> <span class="toctext">Essentials</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Extras_3"><span class="tocnumber">3.2</span> <span class="toctext">Extras</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Excessive"><span class="tocnumber">3.3</span> <span class="toctext">Excessive</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Miscellaneous"><span class="tocnumber">4</span> <span class="toctext">Miscellaneous</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Essentials_4"><span class="tocnumber">4.1</span> <span class="toctext">Essentials</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Extras_4"><span class="tocnumber">4.2</span> <span class="toctext">Extras</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Excessive_2"><span class="tocnumber">4.3</span> <span class="toctext">Excessive</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#From_Frank.27s_Expo_Training_Weekend"><span class="tocnumber">5</span> <span class="toctext">From Frank's Expo Training Weekend</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#First_aid"><span class="tocnumber">5.1</span> <span class="toctext">First aid</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Stuff_to_be_shared_between_pushing_team"><span class="tocnumber">5.2</span> <span class="toctext">Stuff to be shared between pushing team</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Stuff_for_top_camp_which_could_be_useful"><span class="tocnumber">5.3</span> <span class="toctext">Stuff for top camp which could be useful</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Clothing_for_Austria"><span class="tocnumber">5.4</span> <span class="toctext">Clothing for Austria</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
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<a name="Clothes"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Clothes</span></h2>
<p>Expo can be hot, cold, wet or dry, or (more usually) all of these in rapid succession and combination!
</p>
<a name="Essentials"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Essentials</span></h3>
<ul><li>Sunshades, sun cream, sunhat
</li><li>Woolly hat, gloves.
</li><li>Raincoat, jumpers, shirts, shorts, trousers - remember that denim isn't good when wet.
</li><li>Underwear.
</li><li>Socks - lots of them!
</li><li>Boots - waterproof walking boots are better than non-waterproof ones. Make sure you get ones with good ankle support, for boulder-hopping.
</li><li>Trainers or other such footwear for wearing on the journey, into Bad Aussee or when you've had enough of clumping round in boots.
</li></ul>
<a name="Extras"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Extras</span></h3>
<ul><li>Waterproof over-trousers - highly recommended.
</li><li>Gaiters - keeps the snow and/or water out of your socks.
</li><li>Swimming trunks for swimming in the river at base camp, thus removing the need for showers.<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=Ed259&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="Ed259 (not yet written)">Edvin</a>
</li></ul>
<p><br />
</p>
<a name="Camping_equipment"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Camping equipment</span></h2>
<a name="Essentials_2"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Essentials</span></h3>
<ul><li>Sleeping bag - make sure it's warm, 3 season at least; it's not uncommon for there to be a few inches of snow on the plateau.
</li><li>Something to sleep on at top camp. Last year most people either had a air bed or a camp bed (you can get reasonably light and cheap ones from argos).
</li><li>Bivvy bag
</li><li>Knife, fork, spoon, mug.
</li><li>Plate, bowl and/or mess tin - choose the mess tin(s): you can use them both to cook in and eat out of - less washing up! (Alternatively, get both, and leave the mess tins at the bivvy.)
</li><li>Head torch
</li><li>Batteries and/or charger for above
</li><li>Cigarette lighter
</li></ul>
<a name="Extras_2"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Extras</span></h3>
<ul><li>Second (rather lower-spec) sleeping bag, for using at base camp. This means you don't have to carry your sleeping bag across the plateau every time.
</li><li>Second karrimat, for the same reason.
</li><li>Stove for top camp - ideally powered by petrol or paraffin.
</li><li>Penknife
</li><li>Base camp tent - more or less any waterproof one will do. (The club does have some, but not that many, and you are likely to end up sharing with lots of other smelly cavers!)
</li></ul>
<a name="Caving_equipment"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Caving equipment</span></h2>
<a name="Essentials_3"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Essentials</span></h3>
<ul><li>Oversuit, undersuit, wetsocks, kneepads, wellies, helmet, gloves.
</li><li>Shreddies - several pairs?
</li><li>Light - preferably long-duration LED or carbide, or you'll be going down the hill for recharging after every trip. If you use LED's, make sure you have enough batteries for 30-40 hours caving between recharging stops; and don't forget to bring your charger! (A Continental plug adapter for it might also be a good idea.) See <a href="/caving/wiki/Custom_light_construction" title="Custom light construction">Custom light construction</a> for Nial's design.
<ul><li>There is facility for lamp charging at top camp, realistically however your charger must be able to accept 12VDC from a car cigarette lighter socket. See ‘Bivi fettling’ in the wiki.
</li></ul>
</li><li>Backup light - probably a small electric (Princeton Tec LED ones are good, but expensive).
</li><li>SRT kit. Absolutely imperative that you gear tape up the bits.
</li><li>Emergency whistle.
</li><li>13mm spanner (open ended) for bolting. Good idea to attach it to yourself in some suitably clever manner.
<ul><li>A common way of attaching a bolting spanner is to use a snoopy loop (a big rubber band cut from an old car inner tube) around your upper arm with the spanner tied to it by a length of tat. When not in use the tat can be wound round the spanner and the whole lot secured beneath the snoopy loop. Personally I find this to be a pain, as the spanner has a tendency to snag on things and come free of the snoopy at inopportune moments. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 09:46, 24 May 2008 (BST)
</li><li>I prefer a half-length spanner attached to my wrist with a short loop of elastic. It lives inside the neoprene cuff of my oversuit when not in use. As well as being more compact, a shortened spanner makes it less likely that you will inadvertently over-tighten bolts. When de-rigging bolts which have been over-tightened, I put the spanner on the bolt, place my short cowstail krab over the handle of the spanner and give a quick bounce to loosen the bolt. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 09:46, 24 May 2008 (BST)
</li><li>Attaching a spanner to my arm annoys the hell out of me, I find it keeps slipping out of place and getting in the way. My current preferred method is attaching a spanner to a krab with a length of cord and then using the krab to attach the spanner to my harness when not using it, and to my chest tape when I am. <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ollie_s" title="User:Ollie s">Ollie s</a>
</li></ul>
</li><li>Dangly bag, large enough for spare batteries, Flapjack, fudge, chocolate bars, tube of condensed milk, etc., Water bottle, Survival bag (this could live in a pocket)
</li></ul>
<a name="Extras_3"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Extras</span></h3>
<ul><li>Thermal vest and leggings - could be essential. The caves are cold and there will be periods of waiting around and slow survey work.
</li><li>Balaclava - see above.
</li><li>Emergency knife (in case you are involved in a mid-rope rescue - but make sure you know what you're doing before you start slashing around!)
</li><li>Pulley. Indispensable if you ever have to haul people, and a great help even for tackle sacks. The Petzl *Fixe P05 is adequate and cheap, but needs to be used with an oval krab.
</li></ul>
<a name="Excessive"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Excessive</span></h3>
<ul><li>Ice gear - ice axe, crampons, ice boots, ice screws, etc - essential if you're tackling the icy areas of Eishöhle.
</li><li>Skyhooks - pair of, for clawing your way across blank walls when rigging, or just to help hold yourself in position when bolting - it saves a lot of energy, even when you're in a fairly comfortable bolting position anyway.
</li><li>Camera, packaged in a waterproof, highly visible, indestructible, tiny, zero-mass box...
</li><li>Bolting kit
</li></ul>
<a name="Miscellaneous"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Miscellaneous</span></h2>
<a name="Essentials_4"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Essentials</span></h3>
<ul><li>Rucksack or pack frame.
</li><li>Compass.
</li><li>Water bottle.
</li><li>Toiletries - toothbrush, toothpaste, etc.
</li><li>Flannel &amp; towel.
</li><li>Glasses/contact lenses &amp; spares if you need them.
</li><li>Plastic bags - the secret to dry clothes is bags in bags, with spare bags to hand...
</li><li>Reserve supply of gear tape, unless you need to relabel anything.
</li><li>Money - There are Visa cash dispensers in Bad Aussee.
</li><li>Passport.
</li><li>EHIC (European health insurance card)
</li><li>Insurance (Austrian Alpine club?)
</li><li>Food for the journey out.
</li><li>PVC (TSA/Meander) oversuit owners: appropriate patching kit.
</li></ul>
<a name="Extras_4"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Extras</span></h3>
<ul><li>Walking pole(s) for walking across the plateau. Useful for balance when stepping across big holes. Most people seem to just use one as two get in the way on the scrambly bits.
</li><li>Camera
</li><li>Cash for the journey (in Euros).
</li><li>Book to read at base camp when it rains.
</li></ul>
<a name="Excessive_2"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Excessive</span></h3>
<ul><li>GPS receiver.
</li><li>Handheld computer (e.g. Psion) - can be loaded with the Expo website for on-site information...
</li><li>Spare stuff - suppose you break (eek!) your jammer? There is a climbing shop in the next town.
</li></ul>
<a name="From_Frank.27s_Expo_Training_Weekend"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">From Frank's Expo Training Weekend</span></h2>
<p>On 3rd-4th May Frank and Martin went to an expedition training weekend in Wales run by Joel Corrigan (who does the Dachstein expeditions). Frank wrote a document with a list of useful kit that was suggested during the weekend. I've pasted it below as Frank doesn't currently have wiki access. Feel free to comment, as it's interesting to see how the Dachstein people kit themselves out slightly differently from us. <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ed259" title="User:Ed259">Edvin</a>
</p><p><b>Report on Expedition Training Weekend 3rd -4th May 08 South Wales Climbing Centre and OFD</b>
Organised on by Joel Corrigan and others to give university clubs some advice about expeditions
Attendees; Frank Tully; Martin Jahnke
</p><p>Writing this report primarily because lots of useful stuff was discussed.
</p>
<a name="First_aid"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">First aid</span></h3>
<p>Over the weekend I attended a 2-3 hour seminar on first aid which was useful, it always is. Covered all the basics. Much the same as Martins talk which he has done on expo a few times.
Something I found useful is a list of stuff that would be useful to carry in a first aid kit.
</p><p>Personal first aid kit could include:
</p>
<ul><li>Note If your not going deep you may require less, similarly within a team you do not need loads of duplicated kit. Although do not put it all into one bag because sods law says someone will drop the lot down a pitch. Most of the stuff fits into a small BDH, 8”x3”
</li><li>Triangular bandage, Useful for loads of stuff,
</li><li>PVC Electrical tape, Useful for everything, Don’t bother carrying surgical tape.
</li><li>Tube of Eyewash, Washing stuff out of wounds or eyes.
</li><li>Steri-Strips, Cheap from Boots useful for many small wounds
</li><li>Tampons, very absorbent
</li><li>Non-stick dressing, Less useful but if you have room it doesn’t weigh much.
</li><li>Crepe bandages Again less useful but doesn’t weigh much
</li><li>Small personal lightweight bivibag, Put over head and breathe through hole.
</li><li>Candles/nightlights, if used with bivibag will keep you warm, especially as we no longer use carbide. *Note they produce a small amount of carbon monoxide so you must not use them without breathing through a hole in your bivibag.
</li><li>Waterproof matches for candle.
</li><li>Paracetamol, a very effective pain killer that few are allergic to. Write down maximum dose on paper if you cannot remember it.
</li><li>Sachet of Imodium, shits on a pitch is unpleasant.
</li><li>Antacid or Ranatadine, weights nothing could make things much more pleasant.
</li><li>Emergency food, marzipan or similar, something you don’t like is better because then you wont eat it unless it’s an emergency.
</li><li>Bit of karimat in personal bag or wrapped around first aid kit, to sit on in emergency
</li></ul>
<ul><li>Spare batteries for light
</li><li>Spare top, put on when waiting
</li><li>Balaclava
</li><li>Water
</li></ul>
<p><br />
</p>
<a name="Stuff_to_be_shared_between_pushing_team"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Stuff to be shared between pushing team</span></h3>
<ul><li>KISS shelter, sort of like a super light nylon tent where you are the poles, Makes long waits less unpleasant, weights next to nothing
</li><li>Brew kit, ultra light re-sealable gas type using smallest propane mix cylinders.
</li></ul>
<a name="Stuff_for_top_camp_which_could_be_useful"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Stuff for top camp which could be useful</span></h3>
<ul><li>Sudocrem, arse cream for babies, great fro grot rot or harness pressure sores. Was told story about someone who repeatedly used the alcohol hand cleansing gel on harness pressure sore… very unpleasant don’t do it.
</li></ul>
<p><br />
</p>
<a name="Clothing_for_Austria"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Clothing for Austria</span></h3>
<ul><li>Their caves are similar in temperature to ours but the clothing they use is slightly different. Generally they wear more thinner layers and a ‘Gimp top’.
</li></ul>
<ul><li>Oversuit, Possibly carried in bag when moving fast in the dry. Cordura or PVC
</li></ul>
<p>PVC is warmer but modern suits wear out quick, Cordura is similarly warm when new and is harder wearing.
</p>
<ul><li>Thermal top
</li><li>Spare thermal top
</li><li>Thermal salopettes, A favourite seems to be using ‘Imax’ fishing thermals (cheap), instead of a fury suit
</li><li>Biking lycra pants.
</li><li>Balaclava
</li><li>Snood type thing round neck
</li><li>Wetsocks and thin socks as liners
</li><li>Spare light (Tika or similar) Keep in first aid kit or round neck for when helmet goes down pitch etc.
</li><li>Spare batteries. It is not uncommon for something to go wrong when charging.
</li><li>Look at the Blizzard vest, Expensive but can really keep you warm in an emergency,
</li><li>Water of dilute juice, there may not be any water underground in Austria.
</li><li>Gimp top
</li></ul>
<p><b>Gimp top,</b>
One of those super cheap nylon rain coats prized by church walking groups on trips to the lake district. Charity shops are the best place to find them, envy and adoration by other cavers for the most unplesant colours.
</p>
<ul><li><ul><li>Don't spend much money as caving will destroy them in no time.
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
<p>The gimp top was first used as a way of staying warm at the top of pitches however people soon started taking off their oversuit and using the gimp top when moving fast and ascending on dry pitches.
</p><p>This has been recomended by people who cave extensivly in the hill 20 miles west of our hill. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Frank&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Frank (not yet written)">frank</a>
</p>
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<ul>
<h4>Pre-Expo Documentation</h4>
<li><a href="mission.shtml">General mission statement</a></li>
<li><a href="mission.html">General mission statement</a></li>
<li><a href="khplanning.html">Planning trips in KH (161) - note, though, that this wasn't done in 2008</a></li>
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<h1 class="firstHeading">Expo 2008/Committee Formation</h1>
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<a name="Expo_Committee"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Expo Committee</span></h2>
<ul><li>Leader - Ollie Stevens
</li><li>Research Coordinator - Aaron Curtis
</li><li>Treasurer - Kathryn Hopkins
</li><li>Sponsorship - Edvin Deadman
</li><li>Transport - Mark Shinwell
</li><li>Medical officer - Martin Green
</li><li>Gear Order - Serena Povia
</li></ul>
<p><br />
It looks like food will be a team effort this year, as no-one wants to take it on alone. <a href="/caving/wiki/Expo_2008/Insurance" title="Expo 2008/Insurance">Insurance</a> will also be organised individually.
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<h1 class="firstHeading">Expo 2008/KH Planning</h1>
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<p>There has been talk of revisiting areas of KH this year with a view to ultimately getting a connection with 204 via the stuff that was discovered beyond the end of Razordance in 2007. Without committing to anything I thought it would be a good idea to set up a page discussing logistics of this and how it might potentially work so that people can more easily decide if it's a good idea or not. <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ed259" title="User:Ed259">Edvin</a>.
</p><p>Please add comments in the categories below (or add categories for what I've forgotten) - this especially applies to any lags old enough to have been down KH before&nbsp;:)
</p>
<table id="toc" class="toc" summary="Contents"><tr><td><div id="toctitle"><h2>Contents</h2></div>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Where_in_KH"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Where in KH</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Siberia_.2F_Midnight_in_Moscow"><span class="tocnumber">1.1</span> <span class="toctext">Siberia / Midnight in Moscow</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-3"><a href="#Documented_Leads"><span class="tocnumber">1.1.1</span> <span class="toctext">Documented Leads</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#The_Far_End"><span class="tocnumber">1.2</span> <span class="toctext">The Far End</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-3"><a href="#Documented_Leads_2"><span class="tocnumber">1.2.1</span> <span class="toctext">Documented Leads</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Entrance"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">Entrance</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#161a"><span class="tocnumber">2.1</span> <span class="toctext">161a</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#161d"><span class="tocnumber">2.2</span> <span class="toctext">161d</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Camping"><span class="tocnumber">3</span> <span class="toctext">Camping</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Surface_Camp"><span class="tocnumber">3.1</span> <span class="toctext">Surface Camp</span></a>
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<li class="toclevel-3"><a href="#204_bivvy"><span class="tocnumber">3.1.1</span> <span class="toctext">204 bivvy</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-3"><a href="#Top_camp"><span class="tocnumber">3.1.2</span> <span class="toctext">Top camp</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-3"><a href="#Bivvy_near_161"><span class="tocnumber">3.1.3</span> <span class="toctext">Bivvy near 161</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Underground_Camp"><span class="tocnumber">3.2</span> <span class="toctext">Underground Camp</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Rope"><span class="tocnumber">4</span> <span class="toctext">Rope</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Keenness_Levels"><span class="tocnumber">5</span> <span class="toctext">Keenness Levels</span></a></li>
</ul>
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<a name="Where_in_KH"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Where in KH</span></h2>
<p>Which part of KH would we be looking at? (As I understand it Midnight in Moscow is closest but has fewer leads left).
</p>
<a name="Siberia_.2F_Midnight_in_Moscow"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Siberia / Midnight in Moscow</span></h3>
<p>Other than the dig at the very bottom, I can't think of much to
do in Siberia. The <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/sibria.htm#siberia" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/sibria.htm#siberia" rel="nofollow">description</a> mentions at least one lead on the
way down (but not where I remember there being one), and the lead
I can remember on the way down is a body-sized tube not far below
SEP. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 05:41, 28 May 2008 (BST)
</p><p>Well, the leads list largely agrees with my recollection, but there are quite a lot of 'C' leads I'd forgotten about, especially in Fuzzy Logic, where there's also a surprising 'A' lead that apparently hasn't been done. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 02:37, 29 May 2008 (BST)
</p>
<a name="Documented_Leads"></a><h4> <span class="mw-headline">Documented Leads</span></h4>
<p>All leads marked 'Sib' or 'Fuz' in <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/qmtodo.htm" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/qmtodo.htm" rel="nofollow">161 outstanding QMlist after 1997</a>. [C1997-161-26 A] removed from the list as it was the main way on and was pushed the following year. According to the description there are no leads (other than digs and avens) below this point, which agrees with my memory. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 02:37, 29 May 2008 (BST)
</p>
<dl><dt>C1997-161-21 B
</dt><dd>Sib: Hole below pendule at foot of Vom pitch is given as "undescended" (Wookey reckons it can be seen to choke [I reckon so too, although it's in a very good location for a connection if it went <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 02:37, 29 May 2008 (BST)]) [Burblmaze.1]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-22 C
</dt><dd>Sib: hole in floor 40m past 'Not this Junction' [sep.teama.9]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-23&nbsp;?
</dt><dd>Sib: passage left in 1st right hand branch in Greengables [sep.greengables.2]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-24&nbsp;?
</dt><dd>Sib: passage right in 1st right hand branch in Greengables [sep.greengables.2]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-25 V
</dt><dd>Sib: 6m climb 2nd right hand passage in Greengables [sep.greengables.2]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-28&nbsp;?
</dt><dd>Sib: crawl left across 18m pitch below Somebody Else's Problem [sep.part2.14]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-29&nbsp;?
</dt><dd>Sib: crawl right across 18m pitch below SEP [sep.part2.14]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-30&nbsp;?
</dt><dd>Sib: passage left in left hand branch past Greengables [sep.teama.13]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-31 B
</dt><dd>Sib: passage right hand wall 20m before SEP pitch [sep.teama.14]
</dd><dt>C1997-161-32 C
</dt><dd>Sib: another passage right hand wall 20m before SEP pitch [sep.teama.14]
</dd><dt>C1998-161-01 A
</dt><dd>Fuz: undescended pitch traversed past before slope to Paradox Rift.
</dd><dt>C1998-161-02 X
</dt><dd>Fuz: large dripping aven soaring above Paradox Rift
</dd><dt>C1998-161-03 C
</dt><dd>Fuz: unpushed low wet way from 1st chamber below pitches
</dd><dt>C1998-161-04 V
</dt><dd>Fuz: probably easily scalable 15m aven to obvious passage and echo in Psycho Street.
</dd><dt>C1998-161-05 C
</dt><dd>Fuz: steeply ascending tube over calcited pools in Bearbum Passage.
</dd><dt>C1998-161-06 C
</dt><dd>Fuz: very tight rift towards booming echo beyond crawls in Bearbum Passage.
</dd></dl>
<a name="The_Far_End"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">The Far End</span></h3>
<p>I've never been to The Far End, but it does sound rather good.
Check out <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/farnth.htm" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/farnth.htm" rel="nofollow">the description</a>. Strong draughts and several big undescended pitches! <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 05:41, 28 May 2008 (BST)
</p><p>Don't be put off by the name <i>The Far End</i>; it's relatively straightforward caving to get there (certainly <i>much</i> easier than most of the trips in 204 last year), the distance involved is comparable to visiting the furthest leads in Tunnockschacht, and if the 161d entrance is used the deepest point on the way to The Far End is only about 120m down and the depth to the likely connection area of 204 is under 350m. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 10:10, 8 June 2008 (BST)
</p>
<a name="Documented_Leads_2"></a><h4> <span class="mw-headline">Documented Leads</span></h4>
<p>All leads marked 'Far' in <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/qmtodo.htm" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/qmtodo.htm" rel="nofollow">161 outstanding QMlist after 1997</a>
</p>
<dl><dt>C1993-161-01 A
</dt><dd>Far: Pitch in Even Further beyond Weasel Pit [FurtCham.5]
</dd><dt>C1993-161-02 A
</dt><dd>Far: Pitch at end of Scrofulosity [Further.25]
</dd><dt>C1993-161-03 A
</dt><dd>Far: Pitch at end of East Anglia [Anglia.29]
</dd><dt>C1993-161-05 C
</dt><dd>Far: Narrow rift pitch (c20m&nbsp;?, draught) before end of Scrofulosity (needs much hammer) [Further.18]
</dd><dt>C1992-161-11 A
</dt><dd>Far: Silent Fellow Pitch [Pipeless.1]
</dd><dt>C1992-161-12 A
</dt><dd>Far: Satan's Sitting Room pitch [3WiseMen.1 (or 2 or 3?)]
</dd><dt>C1992-161-13 A
</dt><dd>Far: 3 Wise Men pitch before Tinkle Rift [3WiseMen.6]
</dd><dt>C1992-161-14 A
</dt><dd>Far: Wellie Scraper pitch [FarToFar.6]
</dd><dt>C1992-161-19 A
</dt><dd>Far: Far too Far - pitch 40m? very wet [FarToFar.15]
</dd><dt>C1992-161-21 B
</dt><dd>Far: Far too Far - Traverse and pitch in rift to left [FarToFar.15]
</dd><dt>C1991-161-22 C
</dt><dd>Far: Soil pitch in Leadmine [Leadmine.27]
</dd><dt>C1990-161-04 B
</dt><dd>Far: Rifts in Hyper-Gamma Spaces
</dd><dt>C1990-161-05 C
</dt><dd>Far: Endless: Half Shaft (Captive Wedge) inaccessible window [Wedge.8]
</dd><dt>C1990-161-07 B
</dt><dd>Far: Endless: rift off between Hasta La Vesta and Half Shaft (extremely loose) heading back under Yapate
</dd></dl>
<a name="Entrance"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Entrance</span></h2>
<p>Which entrance would we use? 161a or 161d
</p>
<a name="161a"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">161a</span></h3>
<p><b>Routefinding</b> My memory of going in 161a is a little hazy, as it was my first expo, but I think there's a bit more routefinding that way (although the entrance itself is perhaps a little easier to find). <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 06:34, 28 May 2008 (BST)
</p><p><b>Rigging</b> 161a requires considerably more rigging to reach Knossos (where the routes converge): <b>NB</b> These are pitch lengths, not rope lengths.
</p>
<table class="wikitable">
<tr>
<th> Pitch
</th><th align="right"> Length
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td> Entrance
</td><td align="right"> 37m
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Automatic Doors
</td><td align="right"> 12m
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> S'not
</td><td align="right"> 35m
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Garden Party
</td><td> (traverse)
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Chunnel
</td><td align="right"> 7m
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Bungalow
</td><td align="right"> 13m
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Poxy
</td><td align="right"> 7m
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Knossos
</td><td align="right"> 30m
</td></tr></table>
<p>Clearly more tackle would be consumed and more time would be needed for rigging in and derigging if 'a' were used.
</p><p><b>Travel Time</b> A bit counterintuitively, it may actually be faster to go in and out using 'a' - in the 1993 log Wook reports getting <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/years/1993/log.htm#id1993-161-21" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/years/1993/log.htm#id1993-161-21" rel="nofollow">down to Knossos in 25 minutes</a>. Not sure about typical times required to climb out. Getting to and from 'a' on the surface (from just about anywhere) takes less time than for 'd'.
</p>
<a name="161d"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">161d</span></h3>
<p><b>Routefinding</b> In 161d there's a bit of piddling around near the entrance,
but nothing too confusing.
</p><p><b>Rigging</b> Just one ~15 metre pitch needs to be rigged to get to Knossos.
</p>
<table class="wikitable">
<tr>
<th> Pitch
</th><th align="right"> Length
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td> Minoan Surprise
</td><td align="right"> ~15m
</td></tr></table>
<p>My recollection is that this pitch requires a rather longer rope than the pitch length suggests, as the rigging begins at the head of a rubble slope down to a traverse onto the pitch. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 08:37, 1 June 2008 (BST)
</p><p>The modest tackle requirements and rigging/derigging burden favour 'd' if only a small number of people are interested in trying for the connection.
</p><p><b>Travel Time</b> I seem to remember it taking around 3/4 of an hour from 'd', mostly walking along big passage. In and out take about the same length of time, as it's mostly horizontal. You have to take into account the extra
time spent getting to the 'd' entrance on the surface.
</p>
<a name="Camping"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Camping</span></h2>
<p>Would we use the Stone Bridge or the original top camp near KH? Is an underground camp necessary?
</p><p>Another question: would we need more cairns to mark the routes to the entrance(s) - are there any left over from last year? <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ed259" title="User:Ed259">Edvin</a>
</p>
<dl><dd> Yes you will need cairns, although probably not as many as are used on the path to 204 - although there are a few places where it's easy to loose the path there are several sections where once you're on the path it's reasonably obvious where to go. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 06:00, 30 May 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
<a name="Surface_Camp"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Surface Camp</span></h3>
<p>There are essentially three options:
</p>
<a name="204_bivvy"></a><h4> <span class="mw-headline">204 bivvy</span></h4>
<p>Staying at the existing bivvy at 204 would probably be simplest in terms of organisation and call-outs, although it would require extra walking compared with the other options.
</p><p>Walking to 161a from 204 via the top of the Hint. Schwarzmooskogel is not too bad; there's a pretty easy route the whole way. Not sure if there's a good route from 204 to 161d round the east flank of the HSK.
</p><p>Equipment earmarked for 161 could of course be carried directly to the entrance from the car park.
<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 01:30, 29 May 2008 (BST)
</p><p>Another advantage of staying at the 204 bivvy: people would have a choice of whether to do KH or Tunnocks/Hauchhohle. For example if I was going down KH I might want to alternate longer trips in KH with shorter trips in Tunnockschacht. <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ed259" title="User:Ed259">Edvin</a>
</p>
<dl><dd>In practice alternating trips like that are unlikely to happen much unless you <i>really</i> enjoy carrying all your caving kit back and forth across the Hinter, or make an arrangement with someone the same size as you to share kit. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 06:08, 3 June 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
<a name="Top_camp"></a><h4> <span class="mw-headline">Top camp</span></h4>
<p>Setting up camp at the old Top Camp near the col would slightly shorten the walk to the cave and greatly shorten the walk from the car park. However, it would make for more complicated call-out arrangements.
</p><p>Gear could be stashed at Top Camp initially and then gradually moved to 204 or 161 as needed; actually that's true whichever camp is used for 161.
<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 01:30, 29 May 2008 (BST)]
</p>
<a name="Bivvy_near_161"></a><h4> <span class="mw-headline">Bivvy near 161</span></h4>
<p>It's long been suggested that it might be possible to bivvy or camp near 161d or 161a, although nobody has yet tried it. If a suitable site can be found, this option would minimise the amount of time wasted walking between camp and cave. Call-out arrangements would be more complicated than using the 204 bivvy, and possibly more complicated than using Top Camp if the new bivvy site doesn't have mobile coverage.
<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 01:30, 29 May 2008 (BST)
</p><p>Right by the entrance of 161d there is mobile coverage (better reception than the 76 bivvy in fact). I dont know about nearer 161a though. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:JennyB&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:JennyB (not yet written)">JennyB</a> 01:25, 4 June 2008 (BST)
</p>
<a name="Underground_Camp"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Underground Camp</span></h3>
<p>An underground camp shouldn't be necessary to push for the connection. Getting to the leads in KH oughtn't to be too time consuming, and there's 'only' a little over 200m to drop to make the connection. However, if the connection is made with pushing time left on expo, it <i>may</i> be worth considering setting up a camp in the horizontal stuff at the bottom to facilitate thorough exploration. Whether this is worth doing will depend on several things, including:
</p>
<ul><li>How difficult the way in from 161 turns out to be
</li><li>How much pushing time is left on expo
</li><li>How many leads are left at the bottom after the first non-camping pushing trip
</li><li>How many people are interested
</li><li>What resources are available for camping
</li></ul>
<p><a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 06:46, 28 May 2008 (BST)
</p>
<a name="Rope"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Rope</span></h2>
<p>How much rope is required and do we have enough for this?
</p><p>As well as ropes required to reach Knossos from either 161a or 161d (see above), the following pitches will need to be rigged to reach the first good lead at The Far End (undescended pitch beneath The Bridge):
</p>
<table class="wikitable">
<tr>
<th> Pitch
</th><th> Length
</th><th> Rope Length
</th><th> Hardware
</th><th> Status
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td> YAPATE traverse
</td><td>
</td><td> 8m
</td><td>
</td><td> Left rigged 1994?
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Staircase 36
</td><td> 10m
</td><td> 20m
</td><td> 3 Hangers
</td><td> Left rigged 1998
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Strange Downfall<sup>[1]</sup>
</td><td> 23m
</td><td> 22m
</td><td> 3 Hangers
</td><td> Not left rigged
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Strange Upfall<sup>[1]</sup>
</td><td> 18m
</td><td> 45m
</td><td> 4 hangers
</td><td> Left rigged 1992?
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Strange Acrossfall<sup>[2]</sup>
</td><td>
</td><td> 32m
</td><td> 4 hangers
</td><td> Not left rigged
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Burble climb<sup>[3]</sup>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td> Tape for shortarses
</td><td>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Vom<sup>[3]</sup>
</td><td> 37m
</td><td>
</td><td> 3 bolts, 2 slings
</td><td> Not left rigged
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Pipeless
</td><td> 3m
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr></table>
<p>Info for this table from <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/farnth.htm" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/farnth.htm" rel="nofollow">Mainline to Far North description</a>, <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/sibria.htm#yapate" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/161/sibria.htm#yapate" rel="nofollow">Mainline to Siberia description</a> and <a href="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/fixaid.htm" class="external text" title="http://cucc.survex.com/expo/fixaid.htm" rel="nofollow">Fixed Aids in CUCC Caves</a>, plus a little from my own memory. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 07:21, 28 May 2008 (BST)
</p><p>Note that [1],[2] and [3] are alternatives - only one of them needs to be rigged, although [3] will need to be rigged temporarily in order to rig [1] or [2]
</p><p>It would be a <i>very good idea</i> to install stainless steel anchors and maillons on the up-pitches at Staircase 36 and strange Upfall. Frank has offered to donate suitable hanger/anchor assemblies for this purpose. These should be installed very carefully by somebody who isn't a muppet - they're expensive anchors and should last for well beyond our lifetimes, so don't invite Mr. Cockup on the trip.
</p>
<a name="Keenness_Levels"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Keenness Levels</span></h2>
<p>So who from this year's expo is keen on coming down KH? This will ultimately determine whether it's worth pursuing this year or waiting until next year. I'm guessing we need at least 6-7 people? <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ed259" title="User:Ed259">Edvin</a>
</p><p>Even if you don't manage to assemble a team that wants to push for the connection, it would be well worth a couple of people going in (via 161d) and going on a recce trip to The Far End to get a first-hand idea of the difficulty level and how good some of the leads look. It would also be a good opportunity to install that stainless. You would then be 'primed' for a push in 2009. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 01:18, 14 June 2008 (BST)
</p><p>1. Edvin <br />
2.&nbsp;?<br />
3.&nbsp;?<br />
</p>
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<h1 class="firstHeading">Expo 2008/Overall Expedition Guidelines</h1>
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<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Expedition_Objectives"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Expedition Objectives</span></a>
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<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Exploration"><span class="tocnumber">1.1</span> <span class="toctext">Exploration</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Research"><span class="tocnumber">1.2</span> <span class="toctext">Research</span></a></li>
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<a name="Expedition_Objectives"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Expedition Objectives</span></h2>
<a name="Exploration"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Exploration</span></h3>
<ul><li>Continue exploration of Tunnockshacht
<ul><li>At the end of last expo we put more conservation tape in Tunnock's than I think is used anywhere else in Austria! It's a very nice cave, and is unusually horizontal - so there's easy caving to be had for once! It also looks as if it's going to be deep, as we've found pitches on the same scale as Gaffered in 204.
</li><li>Suggested exploration goals
<ul><li><b>Expansion</b>: Do all the like bajillion QMAs and pitches.
</li><li><b>Loop closure</b>: connect 06-41C to 06-23A
</li><li><b>Loop closure</b>: connect 07-48C or 06-33C to 06-37B, 06-38C, or 06-39C
</li><li><b>Loop closure</b>: connect 07-32B to 07-31B
</li><li><b>Connection to 204</b>: it seems likely that pitches in the southern end of Tunnocks could drop into a continuation of the 'Wares level in 204. There should only be about 75m to drop to that level. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 06:32, 30 May 2008 (BST)
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li><li>Explore Hauchhöhle
<ul><li>Hopfully we can find a bypass to razordance, allowing far easier access to the horizontal section beyond which may well connect to KH (we can dream...) Hauchhohle itself may also link 204 and KH - but either way it's an important cave that needs some love.
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
<ul><li>Based on keenness: return to KH
<ul><li>If this happens we will look for a connection to 204 from the KH side. This may involve underground camping [I think underground camping is unlikely to be necessary <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 13:04, 8 June 2008 (BST)], and won't happen unless enough people express an interest in a return to KH. See <a href="/caving/wiki/Expo_2008/KH_Planning" title="Expo 2008/KH Planning">Expo 2008/KH Planning</a>.
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
<a name="Research"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Research</span></h3>
<ul><li>Aaron will continue his cave climatology study he started last expo. It is an investigation into cave microclimates, and involves the use of some novel scientific instruments.
</li></ul>
<ul><li>This year we will produce a documentary on expo, and cave exploration in general. Any camera that can do video will be useful for this so please bring cameras to expo if you can - this has potential to be a very interesting film.
</li></ul>
<dl><dd><dl><dd>I think purchasing 2-3 helmet mounted video cameras (GBP100 each) like <a href="http://www.goprocamera.com/index4.htm" class="external free" title="http://www.goprocamera.com/index4.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.goprocamera.com/index4.htm</a> would be a good use of the RGS money. -<a href="/caving/wiki/User:Aaron" title="User:Aaron">Aaron</a> 13:31, 24 May 2008 (BST)
</dd></dl>
</dd></dl>
<a name="Things_to_do_on_expo"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Things to do on expo</span></h2>
<ul><li>Please <b>set the date and time correctly</b> on your digital cameras. The EXIF timestamp on the image file can then be used if the image has anything useful for science (eg if there's condensation we know what time of day it was) or exploration (we can match up pictures to trips in the logbook for the website). This only works if <b>everyone</b> does it.
</li><li>When checking QMs, figure out which QM you ticked off at some point <b>before</b> writing it in the logbook, and then record the QM number, with an explanation of what happened (too tight, got bigger, etc). It's rather difficult to delete "that lead over by the nice ceiling thing" from the survey.
</li><li>Throw the expo leader in the river.
</li><li>Leave dirty washing up around.
</li></ul>
<a name="Things_not_to_do_on_expo"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Things not to do on expo</span></h2>
<ul><li>Please don't leave dirty washing up around.
</li><li>Streaking at the grike
</li></ul>
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<h1 class="firstHeading">Oversuit repair</h1>
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<li class="toclevel-1"><a href="#Cordura_Suits"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Cordura Suits</span></a>
<ul>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Patches"><span class="tocnumber">1.1</span> <span class="toctext">Patches</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Gluing"><span class="tocnumber">1.2</span> <span class="toctext">Gluing</span></a></li>
<li class="toclevel-2"><a href="#Sewing"><span class="tocnumber">1.3</span> <span class="toctext">Sewing</span></a></li>
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<a name="Cordura_Suits"></a><h2> <span class="mw-headline">Cordura Suits</span></h2>
<p>I intend to fix my cordura suit and try to get it to last another expo. Could I have some advice / discussion on how this is best done, and where the necessary patching stuff can be bought in Cambridge? -<a href="/caving/wiki/User:Aaron" title="User:Aaron">Aaron</a> 22:20, 1 June 2008 (BST)
</p><p>I did <b>a lot</b> of oversuit patching last year - I started off with a brand-new Warmbac suit, and Razordance very rapidly wore it out; the cordura wore thin and then would catch and tear. There are a couple of places where (strangely) the cordura has completely gone, leaving only the transparent waterproof membrane on the inside. Anyway, I digress... <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 08:16, 2 June 2008 (BST)
</p>
<a name="Patches"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Patches</span></h3>
<p>Usually it's best to patch, even if you're just fixing a tear that could be sewn back together. Using a patch moves your stitching further from the damaged bit, so you'll probably be sewing through less worn material, and also spreads out the load on the repair. It's best to make patches oval, or at least to give them rounded corners so they have less of a tendency to lift. If you've got an old suit, the least worn bits of it can be used for patching material. If not, a fair bit of good material for patching can be harvested from your current suit by removing or shortening the inside pocket, or by slightly shortening the legs. Before sewing or gluing the patch on, wash the oversuit (this is easily done by wearing it in the river and wriggling around on the rocks) and dry it. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 08:16, 2 June 2008 (BST)
</p>
<a name="Gluing"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Gluing</span></h3>
<p>I tried using glue (bought in Bad Aussee, but I can't remember what sort it was - I think Olly B reccommended it), which on its own wasn't hugely successful. Unless the amount of glue was just right and the patch was stuck on after just the right amount of drying time, it didn't stick very well. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 08:16, 2 June 2008 (BST)
</p>
<a name="Sewing"></a><h3> <span class="mw-headline">Sewing</span></h3>
<p>Frank brought along some vicious sailmaker's needles, a couple of sailors' pads and a reel of "Whiplash 2000" fishing braid. This was excellent for sewing on patches. To hold the patch in place, just gaffer it on and then stitch through the patch, suit and gaffer. I tried gluing first and then patching, but the glue made it harder to push the needle through and didn't really seem to be necessary when using Frank's indestructible fishing braid as thread. Smearing glue over the stitching seems to be worthwhile, although the best thing to use for that is probably Aquasure. <a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Duncan.collis&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Duncan.collis (not yet written)">Duncan Collis</a> 08:16, 2 June 2008 (BST)
</p>
<ul><li>The palm and needles are sold in ships chandlers and any sailing shop, they usually come in kits and dont cost much. You only need a few needles.
</li><li>The fising braid that i've had sucess with is sold in most large fising shops, basically get the strongest coated kevlar braid stuff. Unfatunatly the stuff i got comes in 500m reels (£20), but I'm sure there will be simlar stuff. Don't get monofibre because it dosent lie flat and the bits that stick up wear off quickly.
</li><li>I'll bring my sewing kit to expo-training or the Yorks trip 7-8/6/08 if I can make it. Whoever needs it in Cambs can then borrow it. --<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Frank&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Frank (not yet written)">Frank</a> 19:26, 2 June 2008 (BST)
</li><li>Incidentally when your pushing the needle through the fabric just as the widest part of the needle passes through, the tip of the needle can easily move accross and cut a really deep gash in your hand. You won't do it twice! and you probably wont be able to finish your oversuit for a few days either.--<a href="/caving/wiki/index.php?title=User:Frank&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Frank (not yet written)">Frank</a> 19:26, 2 June 2008 (BST)
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<h1 class="firstHeading">Expo 2008/Who and When</h1>
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<h3 id="siteSub">From CUCCWiki</h3>
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<p>Here's a provisional table of who is going on Expo 2008 and when. Add yourselves! <font color="red"><b>Red</b></font> means you're there that week, <font color="orange"><b>orange</b></font> means 'maybe' or 'flexible', <font color="grey"><b>grey</b></font> means you're not. Weeks run Friday to Friday.
</p>
<table class="wikitable">
<tr>
<th> Name
</th><th> <center>Week 1</center>
<p>(18 July - 25 July)
</p>
</th><th> <center>Week 2</center>
<p>(25-July - 1 Aug)
</p>
</th><th> <center>Week 3</center>
<p>(1 Aug - 8 Aug)
</p>
</th><th> <center>Week 4</center>
<p>(8 Aug - 15 Aug)
</p>
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 1. Edvin Deadman
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td></tr>
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<td> 2. Kathryn Hopkins
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<td> 4. Becka Lawson
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</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td></tr>
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<td> 5. Julian Todd
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</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 6. Natalie Uomini
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 7. <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Aaron" title="User:Aaron">Aaron Curtis</a>
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 8. Tony Rooke
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 9. <a href="/caving/wiki/User:Ollie_s" title="User:Ollie s">Ollie Stevens</a>
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 10. Frank Tully
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 11. Martin Jahnke
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 12. Mark Shinwell
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 13. Jess Stirrups
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 14. Nial Peters
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 15. Serena Povia
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 16. Olly Madge
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 17. Steve Jones
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 18. Martin Green
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="grey">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td><td bgcolor="orange">
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> 19. Pete Harley
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
</td><td bgcolor="red">
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</td>
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