diff --git a/core/views/caves.py b/core/views/caves.py
index be4278ae8..4a148a124 100644
--- a/core/views/caves.py
+++ b/core/views/caves.py
@@ -451,6 +451,8 @@ def edit_entrance(request, path="", caveslug=None, entslug=None):
         
     if caveAndEntrance.entranceletter == "" and cave.entrances().count() > 0 :
         # this should not be blank on a multiple-entrance cave
+        # but it doesn't trigger the entrnce letter form unless entletter has a value
+        
         entlettereditable = True 
       
     print(f"{entlettereditable=}")
@@ -497,22 +499,26 @@ def edit_entrance(request, path="", caveslug=None, entslug=None):
 
             form = EntranceForm(instance=entrance)
             if entslug is None:
-                entletter = EntranceLetterForm()
-                print(f" Getting entletter from EntranceLetterForm")
+                entletterform = EntranceLetterForm()
+                # print(f" Getting entletter from EntranceLetterForm")
             else:
                 entletter = caveAndEntrance.entranceletter
-            print(f"{entletter=}")
+                if entletter == "":
+                    entletterform = EntranceLetterForm()
+                    print(f" Blank value: getting entletter from EntranceLetterForm")
+            print(f"{entletter=} {entletterform=}")
         else:
-            form = EntranceForm()
-            entletter = EntranceLetterForm()
+            entform = EntranceForm()
+            entletterform = EntranceLetterForm()
 
     return render(
         request,
         "editentrance.html",
         {
-            "form": form,
+            "entform": form,
             "cave": cave,
             "entletter": entletter,
+            "entletterform": entletterform,
             "entlettereditable": entlettereditable,
             "path": path + "/",
         },
diff --git a/templates/editentrance.html b/templates/editentrance.html
index 589c7da6a..c07235d1c 100644
--- a/templates/editentrance.html
+++ b/templates/editentrance.html
@@ -18,11 +18,11 @@ so the Easting/Northing fields will be blank.
 </ul>
 
     {% if entlettereditable %}
-      <table>{{ entletter }}</table>
+      <table>{{ entletterform }}</table>
     {% else %}
       <table><tr><th>Entrance Letter</th><td>{{ entletter }}</td></table>
     {% endif %}
-    <table>{{ form }}</table>
+    <table>{{ entform }}</table>
     <p><input type="submit" value="Submit" /></p>
 </form>