diff --git a/parsers/caves.py b/parsers/caves.py
index e7eebb4..391501e 100644
--- a/parsers/caves.py
+++ b/parsers/caves.py
@@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
 import os
 import re
 import string
-
+import sys
 
 from pathlib import Path
 
@@ -103,15 +103,37 @@ def set_dummy_entrance(id, slug, cave, msg="DUMMY"):
         # print(message)
 
     
-def create_new_cave(svxpath, msg=None):
+def create_new_cave(svxpath, svxid=None, msg=None):
     """This is called only when a new survex file is edited online which has a path on the
     :loser: repo which is not recognised as a known cave.
     ALSO called by survex parser when it finds a cave it doesn't recognise
     """
-    # e.g. svxpath = "caves-1623/666/beast" .svx
+    # e.g. svxpath = "caves-1623/666/beast" .svx - from the *inlcude tree
+    # e.g. svxid = "caves-1623/666/beast"
     print(f"Create new cave at {svxpath} - {msg}")
     #
-    survex_file = svxpath.replace("caves-","") + ".svx"
+    survex_file = ""
+    if svxid:
+        sv = Path(settings.SURVEX_DATA, svxid + ".svx")
+        if sv.is_file:
+            survex_file = svxid + ".svx"
+    else:
+        sv = Path(settings.SURVEX_DATA, svxpath + ".svx")
+        if sv.is_file:
+            survex_file = svxpath + ".svx"
+        
+    if survex_file: 
+        # message = f"Found a survex file {survex_file=} {svxpath=} {svxid=} "   
+        # DataIssue.objects.create(parser="caves", message=message)
+        # print(message, file=sys.stderr) 
+        # print(message)
+        pass
+    else:
+        message = f"NOT found a survex file {svxpath=} {svxid=}"   
+        DataIssue.objects.create(parser="caves", message=message)
+        print(message, file=sys.stderr) 
+        print(message)
+      
     parts = svxpath.split("/")
     a = parts[0][-4:]
     caveid = parts[1]
@@ -142,9 +164,8 @@ def create_new_cave(svxpath, msg=None):
         print(message)
         raise    
     
-    # we know what the survex file is, we don't need to use the guess.
-    # But this sets the survex file on  the cave from the first one we find, not necessarily the best survex file for this cave
-    cave.survex_file=survex_file
+    # But this sets the survex file on  the Cave from the first one we find, not necessarily the best survex file for this cave
+    cave.survex_file=survex_file # primary survex file for Cave
     cave.areacode=areacode
     cave.save()
     return cave
@@ -230,6 +251,9 @@ def do_pending_cave(slug, caveid, url, areacode, msg=None):
         """Guesses at and finds a survex file for this pending cave.
         Convoluted. Needs rewriting.
         Pointless if this cave is being created because we found a survex file...
+        
+        On problem is that the Cave name may have different capitalisation from the survex filename,
+        e.g. 2018-NTU-02 has a survex file 2018-ntu-02.svx
         """
         if k[0:3] == "162":
             id = Path(k[5:])
@@ -244,6 +268,7 @@ def do_pending_cave(slug, caveid, url, areacode, msg=None):
             if Path(settings.SURVEX_DATA, survex_file).is_file():
                 return survex_file
 
+        # This should find the file even if the capitalisation is different, or if the directory name is totaly different
         survex_file = ""
         d = Path(settings.SURVEX_DATA, f"caves-{areacode}/{id}")
         if d.is_dir():
@@ -257,10 +282,12 @@ def do_pending_cave(slug, caveid, url, areacode, msg=None):
                         prime_suspect = survex_file
             if prime_suspect:
                 survex_file = prime_suspect
-            # message = f" ! {k:14} Found a survex file which might be the right one: {survex_file} - {msg}"
-            # DataIssue.objects.create(parser='caves', message=message, url=url)
-            # print(message)
-        return survex_file
+                # message = f" ! {k:14} Found a survex file which might be the right one: {survex_file} - {msg}"
+                # DataIssue.objects.create(parser='caves', message=message, url=url)
+                # print(message)
+                if Path(settings.SURVEX_DATA, survex_file).is_file():
+                    return survex_file
+        return ""
 
     g = GetCaveLookup()
     with transaction.atomic():
@@ -324,7 +351,7 @@ def do_pending_cave(slug, caveid, url, areacode, msg=None):
         )
         if cave:
             cave.save()  # must save to have id before foreign keys work. This is also a ManyToMany key.
-            message = f" ! {slug:18} Pending cave write-up url: {url} - {msg}"
+            message = f" ! {slug:18} Pending cave write-up url: {url} - {survex_file=} - {msg}"
             DataIssue.objects.create(parser="caves", message=message, url=url)
             print(message)
 
diff --git a/parsers/survex.py b/parsers/survex.py
index 651d879..679ed53 100644
--- a/parsers/survex.py
+++ b/parsers/survex.py
@@ -1170,8 +1170,10 @@ class LoadingSurvex:
             fixedpts/gps
             and everything at top level, directly in caves-1623/ not in a subdir
         NOTE self.cavelist is a superset of GCaveLookup, which already contians both uppercase and lowercase aliases
+        
+        why is this called with cavepath="caves-1623/2023-kt-02" when this is a cave where the files are in "caves-1623/2023-kt-02/"
         """
-        if cavepath == "caves-1623/99ob02":
+        if cavepath == "caves-1623/99ob02": #  nothing special about this cave, just used as a marker to dump the cavelist to file
             for key in self.caveslist:
                 cave = self.caveslist[key]
                 if type(cave) != Cave:
@@ -1185,8 +1187,8 @@ class LoadingSurvex:
                 message = (f" - {cavepath} starts with <ignoreprefix> (while creating '{svxid}.svx' )")
                 return False
                 
-        if cavepath in self.caveslist: # primed with GCaveLookup
-            return self.caveslist[cavepath]
+        if cavepath.lower() in self.caveslist: # primed with GCaveLookup
+            return self.caveslist[cavepath.lower()]
 
         rx_svxcollection = re.compile(r"(?i)caves-(\d\d\d\d)/(.*)$") 
         #     rx_cave = re.compile(r"(?i)caves-(\d\d\d\d)/([-\d\w]+|\d\d\d\d-?\w+-\d+)")
@@ -1204,8 +1206,8 @@ class LoadingSurvex:
             if cavepath[6:10] in ARGEAREAS:
                 return do_ARGE_cave(sluggy, caveid, area, svxid)
                 
-            cave = create_new_cave(cavepath, f"Cave mentioned only in a survex file {svxid}") # uses the pending code to create pending cave descriptions
-            self.caveslist[cavepath] = cave
+            cave = create_new_cave(cavepath, svxid, f"Cave mentioned only in a survex file {svxid=}") # uses the pending code to create pending cave descriptions
+            self.caveslist[cavepath.lower()] = cave
             message = f"\n    ! MAKING cave {sluggy} for {cavepath=} {svxid=}"
             # stash_data_issue(parser="survex", message=message, url="/survexfile/{svxid}.svx", sb=(svxid))
             return cave
@@ -2439,13 +2441,14 @@ def MakeFileRoot(svxpath):
     """Returns a file_object.path 
     Used by the online survex file editor when re-parsing
     or tries to find the primary survex file for this cave
+    Looks horrible, rewrite all this..
     """
     cave = IdentifyCave(svxpath)
     if not cave:
         if svxpath != UNSEENS:
-            cave = create_new_cave(svxpath)
- 
-    # is this really necessayr ?!
+            cave = create_new_cave(svxpath, "", "Make dummy Cave for MakeFileRoot {svxpath}")
+
+    # is this really necessary ?!
     fileroot = SurvexFile(path=svxpath, cave=cave)
     fileroot.save()
     print(f"  - Making/finding a new dummy root survexfile for this import: {svxpath} with cave {cave}")