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<title>CUCC Expo Surveying Handbook: Laser points</title>
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<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../../css/main2.css" />
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<h2 id="tophead">CUCC Expo Surveying Handbook</h2>
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<h1>Geographical fixed points on Loser</h1>
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<p>The coordinate system used by the Austrian Kataster is called the
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Gauß + Krüger Landeskoordinatensystem, which is supposedly
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identical to the widely used Universal Transverse Mercator system (Gauß
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analysed the projection in 1822 and Krüger published formulae to
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translate to/from Lat/Long in 1912). In our area, this is UTM zone 31. At
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least, this was our belief, but we don't seem to be getting perfect agreement
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between UTM/31 figures from GPS and the G&K coordinates of fixed
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points... This is probably because the bulk of Austria is in UTM zone 33.
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Hmmmm.</p>
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<p>Within this system, there are a number of triangulation points surveyed
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purely for the purpose of locating caves: these are the
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Katastertriangulierungspunkte, or KT points. A point to watch when reading the
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Austrian literature is that the numbers labelled X and Y are the opposite way
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round from what seems normal to most people, ie. X is the northing and Y is the
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easting. The X coordinate, when quoted in full, is actually the distance in
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metres north of the equator, but usually the leading two digits are omitted, to
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give the same number of digits in the two coordinates. When the two extra
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digits are quoted, then the coordinates are not the same length, which can
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cause confusion if you're used to British National Grid references (where the
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east and west coordinates are run together as if a single number).</p>
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<p>Within our area, a number of derivative points were surveyed (with a laser
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rangefinder/theodolite) near to various caves. This work was done in two
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sessions, in summer 1987 (with CUCC) and in 199x (with ArGe?). The points are
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marked with spits in the rock, and originally with some form of flagging tape.
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However, those which aren't right next to well-known caves are now proving
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quite hard to find in the field, at least partly owing to some very poor
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sketching of their locations.</p>
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<p>For these derived points, the main number is just a sequence number. The
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ones which were derived via an intermediate derived point (rather than
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directly from KT points) have a prefix indicating the point from which they
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were derived. Hence, for example, point 7/9 on the 201 path near
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Elchhöhle, was the ninth derived point, and was found by theodoliting
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and rangefinding from point 7, on the Bräuning Nase. This numbering
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makes it easier, if one point is found to be in error, to work out which ones
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were derived from it and will therefore also be wrong.</p>
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<p>As far as we are aware, all of these points which we have visited are
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correct, with the exception of 7/11 on the col (ie. the most useful point,
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nearest Top Camp), which seems to be out by an angular error of 25 or 26°
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from the Nase point. In the table, point 14/16 is also noted as possibly
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being dodgy, but we have no real indication of why.</p>
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<table class="trad">
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<tr><td>point</td><td>Y (east)</td><td>X (north)</td><td>Altitude</td><td>where ?</td></tr>
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<tr><td>KT114-96</td><td>36670.37</td><td>(52)83317.43</td><td>1903.97</td><td>Hinterer Schwarzmooskogel Trig point</td></tr>
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<tr><td>0</td><td>36386.56</td><td>(52)82804.16</td><td>1815.45</td><td>Hilfstandpunkt (hillock N of <a href="../../smkridge/161/top.htm">161</a>)</td></tr>
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<tr><td>0/1</td><td>36093.56</td><td>(52)82337.43</td><td>1782.35</td><td>Between <a href="../../smkridge/156/156.html">156</a> and <a href="../../smkridge/201.htm">201</a> cloth labelled "0/1" replaced with alloy tag "LASER 0/1" (1999)</td></tr>
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<tr><td>0/2</td><td>36029.92</td><td>(52)82432.14</td><td>1750.06</td><td>Near</td></tr>
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<tr><td>0/3</td><td>35866.51</td><td>(52)82424.03</td><td>1710.16</td><td>Near</td></tr>
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<tr><td>0/4</td><td>35927.72</td><td>(52)82537.57</td><td>1687.45</td><td><a href="../../plateau/145/145.html">Wolfhöhle</a></td></tr>
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<tr><td>0/5</td><td>36005.96</td><td>(52)82782.82</td><td>1690.70</td><td>up gully and left from <a href="../../plateau/107.htm">107</a>
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tatty cloth replaced with alloy tag "LASER 0/5" 1998</td></tr>
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<tr><td>0/6</td><td>35873.09</td><td>(52)82944.29</td><td>1647.78</td><td>Near <a href="../../plateau/76/76.htm">76</a> - between the three entrances</td></tr>
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<tr><td>0/7</td><td>35419.56</td><td>(52)82237.16</td><td>1769.77</td><td>Bräuning Nase</td></tr>
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<tr><td>7/8</td><td>36040.75</td><td>(52)81522.72</td><td>1732.39</td><td>Felskuppe im Bereich des Vd. Schwarzmooskogel (Weiße Warze, The Nipple, Bunter's Bulge)</td></tr>
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<tr><td>7/9</td><td>35395.41</td><td>(52)81044.60</td><td>1588.31</td><td>Elchhöhle <a href="../../noinfo/smkridge/31.htm">1623/31</a>, Punkt am Weg</td></tr>
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<tr><td>7/10</td><td>35620.23</td><td>(52)81945.22</td><td>1629.97</td><td>Kratzer Valley below the col</td></tr>
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<tr><td>7/11</td><td>35659.16</td><td>(52)82394.55</td><td>1682.67</td><td>Schwarzmoossattel (the col) - <i>we believe this is in error</i></td></tr>
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<tr><td>8/12</td><td>35924.02</td><td>(52)81699.80</td><td>1725.04</td><td></td></tr>
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<tr><td>8/13</td><td>36171.86</td><td>(52)81947.11</td><td>1775.14</td><td></td></tr>
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<tr><td>8/14</td><td>36458.17</td><td>(52)81700.42</td><td>1689.48</td><td>Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle <a href="../../noinfo/smkridge/40.htm">1623/40a</a></td></tr>
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<tr><td>14/15</td><td>36464.69</td><td>(52)81751.21</td><td>1686.66</td><td></td></tr>
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<tr><td>14/16</td><td>36558.32</td><td>(52)81537.13</td><td>1660.39</td><td>(possibly dodgy ?)</td></tr>
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</table>
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<p>These fixed points are accessible in the Survex dataset at
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fixedpts/laser.svx.</p>
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<p><img src="../../../icons/roadwk.png" class="icon" alt="" />A description of our own
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surface surveys in the area is under construction, and should eventually
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include details of how to find these laserfound points and other fixed
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points. Currently, locations of caves in the kataster may be quoted as these
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coordinates, or as Latitude/Longitude derived from the Austrian Alpine Club
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(OAV) map sheet 15/1, which does not have a grid. Trying to get all these
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locations into a single coordinate system is a priority, but will involve
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quite a lot of unglamorous surface surveying, so don't hold your breath...</p>
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<p>In some Austrian literature, the easting quoted is in a system labelled
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BMN. The Easting grid line +36000 (Gauß + Krüger, M31) is the
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same as BMN 486000, and translation appears to be a matter of simple
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addition or subtraction, though it may prove to be more complex than this
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over a large enough area, as already indicated by GPS work...</p>
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<hr />
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<ul id="links">
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<li><b>Expedition Handbook:</b>
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<ul>
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<li>Expo Handbook <a href="../index.htm">Introduction</a></li>
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<li><b>Surveying:</b>
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<ul>
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<li>Surveying <a href="index.htm">Overview</a> and index of
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topics</li>
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<li><a href="what.htm">What is a cave survey?</a></li>
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<li><a href="why.htm">Why am I doing this?</a></li>
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<li>Methods: <a href="how.htm">underground</a></li>
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<li>Pitfalls to avoid, <a href="hints.htm">hints'n'tips</a> to
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make life easier</li>
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<li>Methods: <a href="ontop.htm">surface</a></li>
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<li>Base Camp: <a href="getin.htm">getting it in</a> to the
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computer</li>
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<li>Base Camp: <a href="drawup.htm">drawing it up</a>, writing
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the description</li>
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</ul></li>
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<li><a href="../look4.htm">Prospecting guide</a></li>
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<li><a href="../rescue.htm">Rescue guide</a></li>
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<li><a href="../rigit.htm">Rigging guide</a></li>
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<li><a href="../photo.htm">Photography guide</a></li>
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</ul></li>
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<li><a href="../../infodx.htm">Index to info/topics pages</a></li>
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<li><a href="../../indxal.htm">Full Index to area 1623</a>
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<ul>
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<li><a href="../../areas.htm">Area/subarea descriptions</a></li>
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</ul></li>
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<li><a href="../../index.htm">Back to Expedition Intro page</a></li>
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<li><a href="../../../index.htm">Back to CUCC Home page</a></li>
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</ul>
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</body>
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</html>
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