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Adding a page of consolidated troggle notes and hopes
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@ -78,7 +78,7 @@ You can scan what's in the repositories (read only) using your web browser:
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<li><a href="http://expo.survex.com/repositories/home/expo/loser/graph/">loser</a> - the survex survey data</li>
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<li><a href="http://expo.survex.com/repositories/home/expo/expoweb/graph">expoweb</a> - the website itself, including generation scripts</li>
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<li><a href="http://expo.survex.com/repositories/home/expo/tunneldata/graph/">tunneldata</a> - the tunnel (and therion) data and drawings</li>
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<li><a href="http://expo.survex.com/repositories/home/expo/troggle/graph/">troggle</a> - the database-driven part of the website</li>
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<li><a href="http://expo.survex.com/repositories/home/expo/troggle/graph/">troggle</a> - the database-driven part of the website - see <a href="../troggle-ish.html">troggle description</a></li>
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</ul>
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319
handbook/troggle-ish.html
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handbook/troggle-ish.html
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<html>
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<head>
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
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<title>Handbook Troggle Notes</title>
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<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../css/main2.css" />
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</head>
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<body>
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<h2 id="tophead">CUCC Expedition Handbook</h2>
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<h1>Troggle - what you may need to know</h1>
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<p>Troggle is the content management system which runs much of the the cave survey data management and also presents the data on the website and manages the Expo Handbook.
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<p>You may have arrived here by accident when where you really need to be is <a href="website-history.html">website history</a>.
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<p>This page is mostly an index to other records of what troggle is and what plans have been made - but never implemented - to improve it.
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<br><br>
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<tt><em>Everything here should be updated or replaced - this page just records a lot of unfinished ideas.
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Most people will not want to read this at all. This is for speleosoftwarearcheologists only.</em>
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</tt>
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<p>The first thing to do is to read: "<a href="../../troggle/docsEtc/troggle_paper.odt" download>Troggle: a novel system for cave exploration information management</a>", by Aaron Curtis, CUCC.</em>
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<p>Two things to remember are
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<ul>
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<li>that troggle is just one of several cave-survey management online software systems. CUCC EXPO is not the only caving expedition with a substantial nerd community.<br><br>
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<li>that troggle is part of a 40-year ongoing project and lives in a soup of several disparate scripts all working on the same data
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</ul>
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<h3>Troggle Login</h3>
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<p>Yes you can log in to the troggle control panel: <a href="http://expo.survex.com/troggle">expo.survex.com/troggle</a>.
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</p>
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<p>It has this menu of commands:
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<pre>
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All Survex | Scans | Tunneldata | 107 | 161 | 204 | 258 | 264 | Expo2016 | Expo2017 | Expo2018 | Django admin
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</pre>
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<h3>Preamble</h3>
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<p><em>Assumptions</em> (points to necessarily agree upon)
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<ol>
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<li>Let's NOT try to design a generic catalogue for storing all kind of data about caves of the whole world, intended for every kind of user (sports, exploration, science). Let's just settle for a generic framework. Let geeks in individual countries or individual communities write their tools operating within this framework.
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<li>Let's try make it available for the layman, but still well-playable for the geeks.
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<li>Let's rely on already existing, popular technologies. Let's keep it open source and multiplatform. Let's try not to reinvent the wheel.
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<li>Let's not assume everyone has an Internet connection while working with their data.
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<li>Let's version-control as much as possible.
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<li>Let's support i18n - let's use UTF-8 everywhere and cater for data in many languages(entrance names, cave descriptions, location descriptions etc.)
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</ol>
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<h3>stroggle</h3>
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<p>At one time Martin Green attempted to reimplement troggle as "stroggle" using <a href="https://www.fullstackpython.com/flask.html">flask</a> at
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<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitorious">git@gitorious.org:stroggle/stroggle.git</a> (but gitorious has been deleted).</p>
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<p>A copy of this project is archived by Wookey on <a href="http://wookware.org/software/cavearchive/stroggle/">wookware.org/software/cavearchive/stroggle/</a>.
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<h3>CUCC wiki on troggle</h3>
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<p>CUCC still has a list of things that at one time were live tasks, reproduced here:
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from <a href="http://caving.soc.srcf.net/wiki/Troggle">caving.soc.srcf.net/wiki/Troggle</a>
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<p>Troggle is a system under development for keeping track of all expo data in a logical and accessible way, and displaying it on the web. At the moment, it is under development at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/">http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/</a> (But note that this is Aaron's version of troggle, forked from the version of troggle we use. Aaron uses this for the <a href="https://expeditionwriter.com/new-expedition-to-mount-erebus-antarctica/">Erebus expedition</a>).
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</p>
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<p>Note that the information there is incomplete and editing is not yet enabled.
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</p>
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<table border="1" cellspacing="0">
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<tr>
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<th><p>Feature</p></th>
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<th><p>Old expo website</p></th>
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<th><p>Troggle: planned</p></th>
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<th><p>Troggle: progress so far</p></th>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Logbook</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes; manually formatted each year</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes; wiki-style</p></td>
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<td><p>Start at the front page, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/">[1]</a> and click to logbook for year. The logbooks have been parsed back to 1997. </p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Cave index and stats generated from survex file</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Done; see <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com//cave">[2]</a> </p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Survey workflow helper</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes; minimal. surveys.csv produced an html table of whose surveys were not marked “finished”</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes. Makes table of surveys per expo which shows exactly what needs doing. Displays scans. Integrated with survex, scanner software, and tunnel.</p></td>
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<td><p>See it at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/survey">http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/survey</a> . Be sure to try a recent year when we should have data. Survex, scanner, and tunnel integration still needs doing.</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>QM lists generated automatically</p></td>
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<td><p>Depends on the cave. Each cave had a different system.</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes; unified system.</p></td>
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<td><p>Done, but only 204 and 234 Qms have been imported from old system so far. No view yet.</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Automatic calendar for each year of who will be on expo when</p></td>
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<td><p>No, manually produced some years</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Done; see <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/calendar/2007">http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/calendar/2007</a> (replace 2007 with year in question)</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Web browser used to enter data</p></td>
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<td><p>No</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Everything can be edited through admin, at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/admin">http://troggle.cavingexpedition.com/admin</a> . Ask aaron, martin, or julian for the password if you want to have a look / play around with the admin site. Any changes you make will be overwritten. Eventually, data entry will probably be done using custom forms.
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</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Cave and passage descriptions</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes, manually html coded.</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes, wiki-style.</p></td>
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<td><p>Not done yet.<br />
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</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Expo handbook</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes, manually html coded.<br />
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</p>Maybe. Needs to be discussed further.</td>
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<td><p><br />
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</p></td>
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<td><p>Not done yet.</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Table of who was on which expo</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Data has been parsed, this view hasn't been written yet. </p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Signup form, System for keeping contact, medical and next of kin info</p></td>
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<td><p>No</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Signup form should be ready by 20 Jan.</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Automated photo upload and gallery</p></td>
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<td><p>No; some manual photo galleries put together with lots of effort</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p>Photo upload done, gallery needs writing.</p></td>
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</tr>
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<tr>
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<td><p>Search</p></td>
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<td><p>No</p></td>
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<td><p>Yes</p></td>
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<td><p></p></td>
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</tr>
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</table>
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<h3>List of cave database software</h3>
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from <a href="http://wookware.org/software/cavearchive/databasesoftwarelist">wookware.org/software/cavearchive/databasesoftwarelist</a>
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<pre>
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ckan is something like this - could we use it?
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esri online
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CUCC (troggle) http://cucc.survex.com/ - this site.
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virgina caves database (access+arcgis) (futrell)
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each country database
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Austria (spelix) ( <a href="https://www.spelix.at/">www.spelix.at/</a>
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UK cave registry
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mendip cave registry: (access) <a href="http://www.mcra.org.uk/wiki/doku.php">www.mcra.org.uk/wiki/doku.php</a>
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White mountains database (gpx + google earth)
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Matienzo (?)
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Fisher ridge (stephen cladiux)
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hong meigui (erin) <a href="http://www.hongmeigui.net/"http://www.hongmeigui.net/</a> (ask erin later)
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Wikicaves <a href="http://www.grottocenter.org/">www.grottocenter.org/</a>
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multilingual, slippymap, wiki data entry. includes coordinate-free caves.
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focus on sport-caving type info (access, basic gear list, overall description, bibliography)
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e.g. australians only publish coordinates to nearest 10km
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turkey <a href="www.tayproject.org">www.tayproject.org</a>.
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<a href="http://www.uisic.uis-speleo.org/contacts.html">www.uisic.uis-speleo.org/contacts.html</a> change link. no-one looks for list of databases under 'contacts'
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graziano ferrari northern italy list (access + google earth)
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</pre>
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<h3>Wookey's notes on things to do</h3>
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from <a href="http://wookware.org/software/cavearchive/goliczmail">wookware.org/software/cavearchive/goliczmail</a>
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<pre>
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Generally I'd like to find some people (geeks) that share these technical
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ideas: (1) store things in a file system, (2) use XML, (3) do not aim too high
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(do not try designing a general system for handling all caving-related data
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for the whole world).
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If I could find some people that agree with this, then we could try to reach a
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compromise on:
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(1) how do we store our data in a file system,
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(2) how do we use this XML (let's do a common spec, but keep it simple)
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(3) how do we aim not to high and not end up dead like CaveXML :)
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After we do that, everyone goes away to do their own projects and write their
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own code. Or maybe we have some degree of co-operation in actually writing the
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code. Normal life. But the idea is that all geeks working on "cave inventory"
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and systems making extensive use of cave inventories try to adhere to this
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framework as much as possible. So that we can then exchange our tools.
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I think things like "which revision system do we use" or "do we use web or
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Python" are really secondary. Everyone has their own views, habits,
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backgrounds.
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My idea is to work on this in a small group (no more than a few persons) - to
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get things going fast, even if they are not perfect from the beginning. If it
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works, we try to convince others to use it and maybe push it through UIS.
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</pre>
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<h3>Wookey's other notes on things to do</h3>
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from <a href="ttp://wookware.org/software/cavearchive/troggle2design">wookware.org/software/cavearchive/troggle2design</a>
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<pre>
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forms
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-----
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1) members read/write folk.csv and year/members
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2) cave read/write cave_data, entrance_data, surveys/pics
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3) trips -> logbook , QMs, or surveys (more than one survey or location possible)
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4) logbook reads/write year/logbook
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5) survey
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6) prospecting app
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forms show who is logged in.
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databases
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---------
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trips, read from
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logbook entry
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folder year#index
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.svx files
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description
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QMs
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members (cache from form)
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caves
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caves_data
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entrance_data
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storage:
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expoweb
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data/
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cave_entrances
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caves
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descriptions
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loser
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foo.svx
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</pre>
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<h3>Yet more of Wookey's notes</h3>
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from <a href="http://wookware.org/software/cavearchive/expoweb-design">wookware.org/software/cavearchive/expoweb-design</a>
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<pre>
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frontpage
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---------
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quick to load:
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Links:
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Caves number, name, location
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Years
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Handbook
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Data Entry
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Main Index
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Slippy map:
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Indexes to cave page
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Cave page:
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Access, description, photos, QMs, Survey
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Years:
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Logbooks/surveynotes/survexdata/people matrix
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Documents
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Data Entry:
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Logbook entry
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Survey data
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Survey Notes
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Cave description
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QMs
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Photos
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New cave
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Backend datafiles:
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caves/
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cave_entrance
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cave_data
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directory of info
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years/
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year/
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logbook
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pubs/
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reports
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admin/
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lists
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who_and_when
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travel
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jobs
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surveyscans/
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year/
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index
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#num
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handbook/
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(all static info)
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Storage:
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non-html or > 200K go in 'files' (PDF, PNG, JPEG, DOC, ODF, SVG)
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convert small 800x600 version into website by default. (matching structure?
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</pre>
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<h3>Footnote</h3>
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Copy this link into all pages mentioning troggle: <a href="../troggle-ish.html">troggle description</a>.
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<hr />
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<ul id="links">
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<li><a href="index.htm">Expedition Handbook</a>
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<ul>
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<li><a href="survey/index.htm">Surveying guide</a> - Overview</li>
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<li><a href="look4.htm">Prospecting guide</a> – Overview</li>
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<li><a href="rescue.htm">Rescue guide</a></li>
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</ul></li>
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<li><a href="../index.htm">Back to Expedition Intro page</a></li>
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<li><a href="../../index.htm">Back to CUCC Home page</a></li>
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</ul>
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</body>
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</html>
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@ -137,8 +137,8 @@ This is the "Edit this page" capability; see <a href="#editthispage">above for
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how to use it</a> and how to tidy up afterwards.
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</ol>
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<p>See the outdated <a href="http://www.srcf.ucam.org/caving/wiki/Troggle">Troggle page
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</a> for a snapshot of development some years ago.
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<p>See the <a href="troggle-ish.html">notes on troggle</a> page
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for how and why it was developed and what needs to be done.
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<hr />
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@ -107,7 +107,7 @@ made sense, and so wrote Troggle.
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This uses Django to generate pages.
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This reads in all the logbooks and surveys and provides a nice way to access them, and enter new data.
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It was separate for a while until Martin Green added code to merge the old static pages and
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new troggle dynamic pages into the same site. Work on Troggle still continues sporadically.</p>
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new troggle dynamic pages into the same site. This is now the live system running everything (in 2019). Work on developing Troggle further still continues sporadically (see <a href="troggle-ish.html">Troggle notes</a>).</p>
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<p>After Expo 2009 the version control system was updated to hg (Mercurial),
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because a distributed version control system makes a great deal of sense for expo
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@ -121,7 +121,7 @@ troggle, the survey data, the tunnel data. Seagrass was turned off at
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the end of 2013, and the site has been hosted by Sam Wenham at the
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university since Feb 2014. In 2018 we have 4 repositories, see <a href="update.htm">the website manual</a></p>.
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<p>In spring 2018 Sam, Wookey and Paul Fox updated the Linux version and the Django version to
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<p>In spring 2018 Sam, Wookey and Paul Fox updated the Linux version and the Django version (i.e. troggle) to
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something vaguely acceptable to the university computing service and fixed all the problems that were then observed.
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</div>
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Return to<br>
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