diff --git a/handbook/survey/caveentry.html b/handbook/survey/caveentry.html
index bad96dd9c..ed017c1fa 100644
--- a/handbook/survey/caveentry.html
+++ b/handbook/survey/caveentry.html
@@ -101,6 +101,7 @@ The username is "expo" and the password is the usual "{cavey}:{beery}" one.
So a new entrance has to be assigned to an existing cave (which is in the drop-down), and edited correctly later once troggle has
fully
absorbed the existence of your new cave.
+ <p>Also until <em>both</em> a cave and an entrance have been created in the troggle system, neither will appear in the various reports.
<h3>Detailed walk-through of an example</h3>
<p>TO BE DONE - in a separate page</p>
diff --git a/handbook/survey/newsurvex.html b/handbook/survey/newsurvex.html
index a35579e4a..dfebf36de 100644
--- a/handbook/survey/newsurvex.html
+++ b/handbook/survey/newsurvex.html
@@ -31,9 +31,18 @@ This page outlines step 3 of the survey production process. Each step is documen
So you do not need to have installed survex on your laptop at this point.
</p>
+<h4 >Two ways to type in survex data</h3>
+<ul>
+<li>Either you can create a new file and use a text-editor on the <em>expo laptop</em>, as described immediately below,
+<li>Or you can use the online system using a web browser from any computer anywhere. This is much, much easier. To do this you need to
+be somewhat confident of the name (the surveytripid) you will be using. Instructions are
+<a href="#onlinesvx">at the bottom of this page</a>. <br>[This capability has been broken for many years. It is now fully restored in 2020.]
+</ul>
+
<h3 id="survexformat">Typing in the survey data in survex format</h3>
+
<p>The survey data typed up must include all the notes, including station details and passage
names. Make a backup copy to another machine or USB stick as soon as you have typed it in.
@@ -106,6 +115,68 @@ straighforward p10.
to make it easier for yourself.
</p>
+<h3><a id="onlinesvx">Using the direct online system</a></h3>
+<p>Having confirmed the right name to use for your cave, including whether it is in area 1623 or 1626, e.g.
+<pre>
+caves-1623/2050-cucc-01/easybimble.svx
+</pre>
+open a web browser on the equivalent page
+<pre>
+http://expo.suvex.com/survexfile/caves-{area}/{cave}/{surveytripid}.svx
+</pre>
+e.g.
+<pre>
+<a href="http://expo.suvex.com/survexfile/caves-1623/2050-CUCC-01/easybimble.svx">http://expo.suvex.com/survexfile/caves-1623/2050-CUCC-01/easybimble.svx</a>
+</pre>
+and a suvex-file editing page will open, pre-populated with an example template
+for survex data, most of which you will delete and replace. Edit this template and type in your own data.
+<p>You can save your work by pressing the "Save this edited svx file" button, but it
+will refuse to save until you have hand-edited out all the template material in [square brackets].
+<p>As you edit it, you can
+press the "Differences between edited and saved versions of this file" and the differences which
+comprise your recent typing will be listed below the edit window.
+<p>Before you finish typing, use the third button "Run 'cavern' on this file".
+<br>
+- If you haven't yet removed all the [square brackets] stuff, nothing will happen except a message
+<pre> SAVE FILE FIRST</pre>
+below the edit window.
+<br>
+- If you try to save before editing out the [square brackets] stuff then you wil get a message
+<pre> Error: remove all []s from the text. They are only template guidance.
+</pre> below the editing window.
+<br>
+- But if you have done all that, then survex will process your new survex file and tell you interesting things about your survey data below the editing window. ('<a href="https://survex.com/docs/manual/cavern.htm">cavern</a>' is the survex engine which we use to process survex files.)
+<p>You may see a number of error messages below the editing window: <em>read them and understand them</em>. If you don't understand them, <em>ask someone</em>.
+
+<p>So using the online system gives you a very, very easy way of syntax-checking your data entry and
+typing up your notes.
+
+<p>The output you get from 'cavern' will look like this (yes this really does take less than 0.01s):
+<pre>
+ LOGMESSAGES
+ Survey contains 21 survey stations, joined by 23 legs.
+ There are 3 loops.
+ Total length of survey legs = 305.80m ( 305.79m adjusted)
+ Total plan length of survey legs = 253.09m
+ Total vertical length of survey legs = 125.24m
+ Vertical range = 44.74m (from galactica.1 at 0.35m to galactica.20 at -44.39m)
+ North-South range = 99.31m (from galactica.19 at 28.14m to galactica.12 at -71.17m)
+ East-West range = 53.27m (from galactica.1 at 1.12m to galactica.9 at -52.15m)
+ 3 1-nodes.
+ 13 2-nodes.
+ 3 3-nodes.
+ 2 4-nodes.
+ CPU time used 0.00s
+</pre>
+<h4>Folders and subfolders</h4>
+<p>If you have a complex cave like 204 or 161 with many separate exploration zones then you can put subfolder names in the
+URL bar e.g.
+<pre>
+<a href="http://expo.suvex.com/survexfile/caves-1623/2050-CUCC-01/murderalley/killerclimb/easybimble.svx">http://expo.suvex.com/survexfile/caves-1623/2050-CUCC-01/murderalley/killerclimb/easybimble.svx</a>
+</pre>
+and the intermediate directories will be created on the server if they don't already exist. This is in addition to
+the directory name which is also the name of your new cave being created automatically.
+
<hr />
<p>Back to the previous page in this sequence
<a href="newwallet.html">Creating a new survey wallet</a>.
diff --git a/handbook/survey/newwallet.html b/handbook/survey/newwallet.html
index ce5dbde4a..8d6484fcf 100644
--- a/handbook/survey/newwallet.html
+++ b/handbook/survey/newwallet.html
@@ -80,6 +80,14 @@ survey books are divided into "Kaninchenhöhle" (usually referred to as
"notKH survey book"). There should be an index page at the front, which you
should also fill in so that people can find your survey again.</p>-->
+<h3 id="existing">Check existing online wallets (surveyscans folders)</h3>
+<p>As well as looking through the other plastic wallets in this year's lever-arch binder, have a look online at
+the <a href="/survey_scans/">list of all online wallets</a> and have a look at all the folders referred to
+in your cave in, e.g. here is the data for <a href="/survexfile/204">cave 204</a>: the wallet identifier is
+in the right-most column titles "Scans". If you are doing an entirely new cave, then this won't exist yet but it
+will be where your new discovery is eventually published.
+<p>As well as following through the links on those pages, have a look at the <a href="/tunneldata/">drawings files page</a> which lists all the scanned notes, plan and elevation scans in the each wallet ("Scans folder" column).
+
<h3 id="onlinew">Scan the notes into the online wallet</h3>
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<div class="onright">