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<title>Der Schlaz - Autumn 1983</title>
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<LINK rel="alternate" lang="de" href="../de/841642.htm"
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title="Schwarzmooskogelforschungen Herbst 1983">
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<center><font size=-1>CTS 84.1642: <b>Der Schlaz</b> Heft 42, February 1984,
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pp 36-45<br>"Schwarzmooskogelforschungen Herbst 1983"</font>
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<h2>Exploration on the Schwarzmooskogel, autumn 1983</h2>
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<b lang="de">Franz Lindenmayr</b></center>
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<p>Following the discovery of the gigantic Schneevulkanhalle in the
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Schwarzmooskogel/Totes Gebirge by some Nuremberg cavers and myself,
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intensive further work took place in this area in the autumn. The results are
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so important that we must yet expect big surprises in the next few years.
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<p>In mid-September 1983, Wilfried Lorenz undertook a weekend tour together
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with three other cavers from Nuremberg in order to photograph and, to look
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for new continuations. Straight away, they had success. At the deepest point
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of the Schneevulkanhalle, that is accessible only over another
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30-m-Schrägabstieg over partially very steep ice, they determined that
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here was not end but that the cold wind prowled through a narrow open split
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between roof and floor. The soft infill was scratched with everything
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possible in order to slip through. Luckily, the silted up route was only
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approximately 2 m long. A small chamber immediately opens behind it with a
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flat clay floor. The continuation now leads into an upward tube in the white
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limestone. Untouched stalagmites line the way. Baby shaft-areas force one to
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scramble up and down. The further one comes up, the more the dimensions
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decrease. Then, the character changes again. A descent into a Canyon leads
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into a water-worn cleft, that must be climbed on the other side again. A
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horizontal walk, that led into big chambers and foyers, down here. The
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Nurembergers turned back here.
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<p>The next trip took place on the 23-25 September. Wilfried had told me on
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the telephone of the success of the last tour and me with it quite hotly
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done. We had gone away in August convinced that there was no continuation
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from the chamber. The Loserhütte was arranged as venue.
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<p>From Munich, Oliver Pirner, Reinhard Wagner and I came, from Nuremberg,
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Wilfried Lorenz, Monika and Gerhard Lorenz, Reinhard Lemmer, Heinz Stenzel,
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Bernhard Nerreter, Christine Wieloch and two further Nuremberger (?). We from
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Munich had gone to bed long ago as, shortly after midnight, our Nuremberg
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friends opened the door to the Loserhütte situated so far from our
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everyday-world.
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<p>The next morning, it was still dark as we got up; the prepared breakfast
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was eaten and backpacks prepared for departure still in the twilight and the
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sun rose over the Trisselwand as we arrived at the Loserparkplatz. A white
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fog-layer hung over the valley, above which the Dachstein massif towered like
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a mountain-monument. Our caravan moved off, but the further we were removed
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from the lonesome parking place, the more and more we split into small
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groups. Particularly three of us, Wilfried, Reinhard and a young caver from
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the Frankfurt area, had heavy packs to carry. They wanted to stay at the cave
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the following week as well and do more exploration. Oliver and I did another
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short excursion at the turn-off of the Stögerweg. I wanted to find the
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entrances to the Stellerweg-/Schnellzughöhlensystem, that at present
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with its 4 km length and almost 900 m depth is still the biggest cave on the
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Schwarzmooskogel. Since I had only very vague ideas of the exact location, we
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promptly left the path at the wrong place. Below it, amongst the bunde, we
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found a shaft that appeared to drop into a snow-filled chamber. Without rope,
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nothing was to be done there however. I still had in memory that the
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Schnellzughöhle entrance should lie approximately 100 m below the
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Stögerweg, with its railway-tunnel-like opening. Therefore, we climbed
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down the hillside over several steep steps overgrown with grass and larches.
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Left from us, there seemed to be a rocky doline. I crossed over a steep
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grass-strip and stood before a triangular cave-entrance. Cold wind moved the
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big plants in the entrance. The passage had typical Schwarzmooskogel
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characteristics. The roof is an upside-down "U", that runs out into two
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side-walls of about 2 m. At the ground, fine-rubble lay, showing no tracks of
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previous exploration. Was this a new cave we had found? Upon the
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Stögerweg, we soon came upon two strongly blowing caves, one of which
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was the well known Windloch (1623/32). To the Stellerweghöhle itself, we
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have still found no way.
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<p>Our comrades had already vanished in the bunde-wilderness of the
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Schwarzmooskogels long ago as we reached our two left-behind backpacks again.
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At the "White Nipple", we had caught up with the others again a half hour
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later. Some of those had got lost on the long grass-strip and had chosen the
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wrong way. By coincidence, they had arrived at the third of the big caves in
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this actually only quite small area, Schwabenschacht. At the entrance, they
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still found the luxuriant waste-tracks of last big research-days. It should
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be approximately 350 m deep.
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<p>At the main entrance into the Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle, breakfast was
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first done before heading down to our new discovery. Ice-screws came into
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play to anchor the descent-rope into the Schneevulkanhalle for the first
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time. Everything proceeded smoothly. I immediately headed with Reinhard and
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Oliver on the newly discovered passage. A second rope had to first be wound
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about an ice-formation, then the way was free to start over the almost
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vertical ice-wall. The ice stopped at the bottom. We could strip the
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crampons. A tiny oval at the most rearmost chamber-side, from which cold air
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exuded, seemed to be the continuation. Before getting through, hard digging
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had however still to be achieved with hands and feet. Beyond the Schlufes,
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was a small chamber with untrodden mud floor, then a beautiful white passage,
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followed by a water-worn shaft zone. I followed Reinhard, who had climbed
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down the opposite wall already. The scramble downward was easier than it had
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looked initially. I stood on gravel-floor and had just wanted to climb upward
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again as the strange sound of a falling stone penetrated from below. Another
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cavity was under the ground, on which I stood exactly, maybe ? As a
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precaution I stepped quickly aside and lifted some stones from the rubble
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floor. Actually, a black nothingness yawned below there. Before I dug
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further, I first tied myself to the protection-rope, that Reinhard had sent
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down from above. A quarter hour work was necessary in order to throw the once
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"solid" shaft-floor into the depths and, to open the way downward. Where,
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nobody yet knows at the moment. Since we had no rigging gear with us, the
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continuation remains unexplored. The main route continued on spacious. A
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roomy chamber with much collapse-debris followed, then a Canyon passage with
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snow-white walls and tawny changes in colour. Towards the end, the passage
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gradually becomes smaller, finishing with much caollapse. We are presumably
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not at all far from the overlying surface here.
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<p>Reinhard and I turned back somewhat disappointed. On the way, we wanted
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still to examine all small side-passages, in order to be sure that we had not
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to come back. A magnificent Schluf branched off perpendicular to the main
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passage. With difficulty, we got out all the stones, fought us so onward, but
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in the end however, I only poked around with the legs in a minutely small
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hole. There was only a small possibility. With the tubes, another low Schluf
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to the right also branched off. I crawled after 5 m in and already, I could
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stand in the parallel-gap up. Steeply, it went continually larger nascent
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split in it with rich Sinter downward. The ground was finally missing because
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it led into a small area. Reinhard now climbed first, installed a ropesling
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in two threads and climbed down. I followed him. The following, we could
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follow further steeply downward pulling passage only few metres because it
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became noticeably more vertical and we had no further gear with us. Only a
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tempting gaze in a horizontal walk below was possible. We turned back.
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<p>Going back in the Schneevulkanhalle, we heard about the undertakings of
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our comrades. They were immediately into the side-rift beside the route we
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had climbed and came out in a 20 m high Canyon, that was difficult to
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explore. The photo-group now began to light up the giant-chamber with PF100,
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the light bulb-sized flashbulbs. Meanwhile, Bernhards and another Nuremberger
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descended into the second side-rift in the ice, that we had ignored. The
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result, that they brought back, was cataclysmic. A 10m ice down-climb led to
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the floor of the chamber. Along a 50 m long ice wall, they came into a big
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ice-free walk with several turn-offs. And in this walk, they found the
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inscription "Hütter 1938". Therefore people had been here before, and we
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had found only the continuation of the Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle in the
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end. Their report was especially exciting over a strong bewetterten (I think
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this means be-weathered, which I understand to mean "blowing like a bugger")
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side-passage, in which they could descend no longer because of shortage of
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materials.
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<p>We wanted to spend the night in two groups - the bivouac-group at the cave
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entrance and the fresh air-group, that wanted to sleep somewhere above the
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portal between the bunde. The weather got worse visibly in the night, a
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strong thunderstorm closed in at two o'clock. Lightnings lightened the black
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night, that awakened shortly subsequent thunders, also the deepest sleeper
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on. It began to rain hard. Within a very short time, our fresh air-group was
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gathered under the cave roof. By huddling closer, all 12 found accommodation,
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number 12 however geisterte still around. The rainwater needed 5 m heavy
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rock-parcel of shares over us had seeped 3 lessons until it through that
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approximately. Then began a line along it first to dribble, then later to
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stream. Wide drip-positions became active. Slowly, no one had a dry sleeping
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place any more. We had to get up gezwungenermaßen. Reinhard pushed
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home, the others affiliated, 9 persons stumbled in the streaming rain over
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slippery limestone pavement back to civilisation. 3 remained behind, they
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erected a tent-tarpaulin, that should offer them some protection for the rest
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of the week. Hardly was the main-group back on the parking place, when the
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clouds vanished, the skies cleared, the sun shone and a one-week fair-weather
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period began.
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<p>Wilfried's group measured the passage into the Schwarzmooskogelhöhle
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in the subsequent time, the outside-surveying extended us known
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extreme-points of the system to that, the Lamperlhöhle found in August,
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that is only one receipt knowner long ago into the
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Schwarzmooskogelhöhle, used as has turned out later, the "shaft under
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the larch", that still gives occasion to big hopes, tried to find the upper
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entrance of the snow-cone of the Schneevulkanhalle and discovered the
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"dome-cave" with it and finished this week with an ascent of the Dachstein.
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<p>Gradually, the message of the discovery of the giant chamber seeped
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through in the Schwarzmooskogel on and on. It was as one has thrown a stone
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into a motionless lake, that now evoked ever bigger circles. Originally also
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Wilfried wanted to go too again, but it became nothing with him/it from it.
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Willi Hermann and Herbert Wimmer wanted to come along this time, furthermore
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still Oliver Pirner and Mario Tauchers, a caver from the Ausseer country
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living in Munich. Was from the 21 up to the 23 October 1983 this time.
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<p>In the evening at the Loserhütte, we were at first the only guests,
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and were allowed to sit in the pleasant kitchen. Later, two more inebriated
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Ausseers came up. Finally, Karl Gaisberger visited us. He is our most
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important contact there and I told him in detail about the latest stand of
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the explorations. We kept at it until 2:30 in the morning.
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<p>It became only a short night, because at 6 o'clock, we got up again. A
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terrible skull-drone and a disgusting nausea in the stomach of the
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Zirbengeist and the sumptuously enjoyed beer hindered the energy not only
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with me. The wonderful autumn-weather was only perceived by some of us by an
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inner fog. Two Ausseer caver-comrades came up in the dawn, Hans Segl and Egon
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Pfusterer. They accompanied us into the Schwarzmooskogelhöhle in order
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to see the new parts. At ten o'clock, we stood in front of the bivouac-place
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in the entrance of the Schwarzmooskogelhöhle, made breakfast first
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powerful once again in order to gain strengths again and marched to entrance
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"D" then further down. Meanwhile, we had found out that the notorious
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water-problem through the utilization of the snow-occurrences in the portal
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2, nickname Elefantena. . . . pierce to solve well was. At noon we put all
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pots, filled with snow, into the sun and in the evening we had usable water.
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<p>At the snow volcano in the cave, Mario attracted attention that daylight
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fell in from above. He climbed through a hole upward and came back again some
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time later. He had succeeded in advancing to a daylight shaft with
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perpendicular walls drawing up towards heaven. To get out was not possible
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however. From the Schneevulkanhalle, all those that saw for the first time,
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were very much impressed. I felt drawn equally further however. Finally this
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time, our goal was the shaft leading into the unknown in the passages that we
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had approached last time. Altogether, three ropes were necessary in order to
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reach the starting point for the new ground. Oliver first beat a spit flatly
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before Mario with short, fast hits put down the final belay-point. I had the
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honor to go ahead. A tiny carbide flame, that I had not once been able to
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ignite again, because I had no lighter with it, and my single illuminations
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were an almost burned out torch. 8 m vertically down, it went into a
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horizontal passage with gravel floor. Straight ahead, [unclear if the
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passage ends 10m ahead in collapse blocks, or if the passage passes 10m
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through collapse blocks] to be transferred by big collapse blocks seemed
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according to the gang 10 m. I could see a low Schluf-passage behind me, with
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a mud floor. The funnel was exciting directly before me. I slid down and
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removed some pebbles with it. They clattered through a small hole in the
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floor and were only to be heard after some seconds again as they hit much
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further below. A gaze down was possible only after some digging. One pitch 8
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m diameters showing big shaft leads in the depth vertically. One stands on
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wedged boulders and verbackendem conglomerate, that are jammed in above this
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abyss. The further I opened the narrow hole, the more unwell I felt. I would
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most like to fix myself with a Jumar to the rope coming from above
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eingehängt in order to be secured a little. It would be possible that
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the lot would suddenly all collapse and onewould next stop 50 m down. Because
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of these problems, I abandoned this position soon and turned back instead. On
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the way back, I noticed for the fisrt time the many dead spidersin the
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tube-passages which give this zone the name Spinnen-Friedhof (web-graveyard).
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<p>Herbert and I did in the end, as had left others the cave finished long
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ago already again, still some receptions of the hollow out-ice already almost
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completely reduced, only dully acting now and only left as it was already
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deep night the hole outdoors. Nevertheless, it was not dark. The full moon
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shone so brightly that a way back was possible without shining carbide-lamp.
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<p>At the bivouac, we noticed that Willi Hermann was missing. Was he still in
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the narrow entrance-schluf of entrance "D", but as he/it already completely
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through was and a step of 1.50 m hinabgemüßts would only have, did
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he/it apparently discover first that gets lost a broken rib he/it he/it
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itself from earlier ago? In the night, to look for somebody in this terrain,
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can let remain one. He/it gives simply much too many holes in those one,
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without somebody will find one for long time can vanish. Herbert finally
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noticed that Willi's backpack was no longer there. He was apparently also,
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like like our three Ausseer comrades, on the way back. Later still I found
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two small papers with a message from him so that we need worry ourselves no
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more.
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<p>In the next morning the last three of us, Oliver, Herbert and I, did
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another tour into the Schneevulkanhalle. I wanted to go down over the
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magnificent ice-wall at the chamber edge into the well known parts of the
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Schwarzmooskogelhöhle this time. With two ice-screws, that are fixed
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into thick ice, the belay of the short rope is no problem. The descent with
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crampons was more pleasure than danger. Below one can immediately take off
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the crampons again and can continue without them. Between the high
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facet-structured ice-wall and the light rock at the chamber edge has melted
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out a wide walk, through which one progresses easily. An ice-tongue like of a
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glacier has pushed itself into the old passages full of coarse collapse
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blocks. The tunnel ascends easily. Before it leads into a chamber with two
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big continuations, there is a branch off to the right: a low passage,
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partially filled with small bits of rock. A powerful current of air was to be
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felt. It no longer continued after few metres. A shaft opened. It looked good
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and didn't seem to be too deep. Its exploration, however, didn't seem
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harmless because many loose stones, that already fell with the smallest
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movement downward, lay around. Lack of equipment, time and motivation decided
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us to postpone this work.
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<p>About 2 o'clock in the afternoon we three first packed up, then ascended
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the steep, smooth limestone walls, squeezed through the alleys in the bunde
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to the White Nipple. Then up and down again to the Stögerweg. The rest
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of the way up to the parking place seemed interminable to me today. All at
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once, we met Willi. He had needed the whole day for the way back. Again and
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again, he had become confused, had had to fight through the green bunde with
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difficulty. In the end, in the light of the declining sun, we enjoyed on the
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terrace before the Loserhütte a heavily earned, newly tapped half beer.
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<p>From the 11th to the 13th November, our last tour took place for this
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year. Originally, we wanted to set off only as quite a small team, Reinhard
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Wagner, Wilfried Lorenz, Manfred Schätzl and I. In the end however, it
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was 10 cavers from Munich and Nuremberg and with further 10 Ausseer cavers,
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we met at the cave. The loneliness and silence, which earlier had
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distinguished this area, seemed unfortunately to yield to the noisy
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conditions.
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<p>The former "paradise" is slowly suffering crowd impact. The most barbaric
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intervention, if the piece of information is right, was caused by Gunther
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Limberger. He has gone along the steep track marked with small cairns and has
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decorated the rock with hand-sized blots and half-metre-long arrows at
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countless positions with red spray-paint. All those who remembered the
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original conditions, were shocked.
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<p>I have immediately responded and here and there with any lying around rock
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laboriously waymarked some of these points piece by piece again. The Ffft
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from the spray can is rectifiable only with tenfold expenditure again.
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Nevertheless, such a rarely visited zone rewards such commitment.
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<p>In the background, there is also the fear that the
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Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle could turn into a commercialised cave one day.
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In the end there are quite substantial financial incentives: if there was a
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unique sight to see above there, that would make attractive new publicity for
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the Loser-Panoramastraße. Hopefully, this will never happen.
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<p>The goal of this tour was new exploration and surveying. Last time, I had
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climbed a rock-wall above the way back from entrance "d" to the main
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entrance. Crossing a 50m grass strip, I found the previously unlocated mighty
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shaft above the Schneevulkanhalle. This new shaft, entrance "e", was our
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first goal. Near the descent to the level of the main entrance, and, to save
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the subsequent ascent, I tried to find a way for our group above the
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vertically falling "cave-pit". The result was staggering. Apparently none of
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us has ever crossed here. Immediately, we came upon a "passageway-cave", an 8
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m high rift, that leads after 15 m on the other side into a rocky doline
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again, and presumably represents just the rest of a chamber formerly closed.
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In the middle of the passageway was no more floor - a clean shaft with
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current of air leads here into the depth. Presumably, it also leads into the
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underlying main-walk of the Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle.
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<p>The steep terrain forced a detour upward where it became flatter. All
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difficult bits could be overcome easily over wide rock-ribbons. In a 10m deep
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depression, grass-tufts moved in the wind. Was there a hidden cave opening
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there? I climbed down and stood in front of the next big portal, that leads
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in into a shaft. Only 30m further was a Canyon, that was also draughting and,
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to judge from thrown stones, leads profoundly down. 3 new caves in 10
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minutes.
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<p>At the big entrance shaft, a right jam occurred since all wanted to go
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down at once. Wilfried and me wurlte it too much. We decided rather to do a
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prospecting walk in the surroundings. Only 50 m north we found the first
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shaft, possessing a 7×7m diameter, with a rock-pedestal in its 10m
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depth.
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<p>Left past this, approximately 30 m further, at the foot of a rock-wall, I
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found an ice-plug. A small hole had remained opne between the boulders over
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it. I waited first for Wilfried so that we could down-climb into the steeply
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descending area together. Several Canyons lead together here and seemed to
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approach a funnel with the chamber-rear wall. I crawled down, pushed some
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rocks aside, saw a blocked Scluf and felt the easy current of air. As the
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digging became too arduous, I gave up. Above was a horizontal crawlway.
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Wilfried crawled first and where several even smaller inlets came together,
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came to a junction. We had penetrated into one of the many small
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feeder-system, that exist at the Schwarzmooskogel in droves. We found a
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broken off stalagmite-stump here in the untouched mud floor as well. This
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small cave was barely 50 m overall length.
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<p>Further, our cave search went. I headed to the big headwall of the
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depression to the foot of the Vorderer Schwarzmooskogel. There were small
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dark openings, to be seen there. Unfortunately, they all are completely
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plugged with rubble. In a projecting ridge, a 8 m wide and 2 m high cave
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portal overlooked the depression.
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<p>A tunnel led me on. Downward, it went into a 10 m wide and 20 m long
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chamber. At the farther end, daylight entered through a small round opening
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again. The tunnel turned to the left and finished 20 m further with a
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collapse, that was up to the roof. At the deepest point of the chamber, I
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finally found a small shaft between the boulders, that led in stooping walk
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perpendicular to the previous system. Since I was alone, I omitted rather
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further ventures and turned back.
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<p>On the other side of the spur in which the "Harnischtunnel" lies, I found
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the presumable continuation of the main-passage, a small chamber of 10 m
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diameter. Only few metres away is the "Himmelsloch", a cave-ruin with a big
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roof-window. It became time to turn back again. Deep pits, overhanging
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rock-walls and bunde-thicket, however, made it rather difficult, to come back
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to the entrance "e", the big shaft.
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<p>The comrades had vanished in the depth of the shaft long ago. Only
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Wilfried and I were still there. The weather was so splendid that we wanted
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first to connect our finds to the overall surface survey of the
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Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle. At the shaft with the big entrance opening, a
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thread was quickly found for the 20m rope. I went first and stood 11 m deeper
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on the extensive shaft-floor. I saw from the left the in-gleam of daylight
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from a nearby located shaft. A smooth bedding plane formed the inclined cave
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roof. A shaft led a further 15 m into the depth. Wilfried now climbed in
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front and came in into a high chamber. A walking sized passage leads from the
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foot of the shaft, but finishes unfortunately after few metres at a puddle.
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After the black scrolls, that lie around on the cave floor, the cave is now
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called "Schwarzlaubhöhle".
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<p>Also both the other caves were linked by us to the overall survey. In the
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"Harnischtunnel", we descended into the side-passage and came upon a
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remarkably cold chamber with ice floor and ice formations. Unfortunately,
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none of the short Schlufs, that branch off everywhere, led anywhere. The
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surveying yielded barely over 50 m passage length.
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<p>It already became dark as we finally climbed into the
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Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle. The "Königschacht" was still to survey,
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and we immediately began with it. The 30m tape was enough to reach the first
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snow-heel exactly. From there it goes 10 m, past a big round snow-hole, down
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as far as the entry-point into the Schneevulkanhalle, once again.
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<p>In the chamber, we met an enthusiastic Oliver. He told what had been
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discovered in the meantime by the others. The small shaft in the old part of
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the Schwarzmooskogelhöhle had led in into a huge continuation. About
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these explorations, Reinhard will tell in an individual report for the
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SCHLAZ. In the end Wilfried and I did some more recordings of the big ice
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wall and then left through the Schluf out of the cave again, heavily laden
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with three big sleeping bags.
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<p>What greeted us outdoors, was a tragedy. Red points and a 50 cm long red
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arrow, an Austrian sausage-paper and, as coronation of the whole
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unpleasantness so to speak, we found right at the entrance the discarded,
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almost empty paint can. In the cave, I still had wrapped up chewing gum in
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silver-paper and black shoelace found long.
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<p>Also our "relic", the wooden Brennerbeserl behind the entrance schluf, has
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caught it. It is away.
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<p>We had always taken the trouble to change so little as possible in this
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magnificent cave to practice "soft cave exploration". Unfortunately some of
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our caver-colleagues have not probably stuck to it and have graphically shown
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how one can desecrate a nature-monument in the shortest time. Moaning
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achieves nothing. I think more of the effect of models. Therefore I have
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simply gathered everything up again and have taken it away. Maybe, also the
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taker of the Brennerbeserl returns this again. It is a unique document for
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the exploration-history of the cave!
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<p>In the evening in the bivouac it was very close-fitting. Ten bodies sought
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and finally found a roost.
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<p>The next morning, we split into 3 groups. Oliver led a small group to the
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shaft by the path to the Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle in the surroundings of
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the White Nipple. Unfortunately, there was no success there, since no
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continuations were to be found below. Wilfried measured with a group at the
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surface the connection portal 2 to entrance "e".
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<p>I led Reinhard, Manfred and a Nuremberger to the Lamperlhöhle.
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Reinhard first put in another spit belay. Then, the way was open down the 25m
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pitch that leads directly into the South-part of the
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Schwarzmooskogeleishöhle. Since the time was short, we didn't hang
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abround much her but immediately strove toward on the continuation found by
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me in August in the choked parts. Perceptibly, the cold air came out from the
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low, mostly rubble-filled passage. We crawled up to the shaft. The rope was
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fastened to a thread. Reinhard climbs down first to an intermediate ledge 5 m
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deeper. I follow. Another shaft, that leads down into a big area, down here.
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Reinhard climbs to a thread over the demolition, installs a long green sling
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there as rebelay, and clips on the descent rope with a karabiner, further it
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goes. First Reinhard, then I, then the others.
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<p>A rubble-filled chamber with several small holes at the sides is reached.
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A Canyon seems to continue. Unfortunately, all continuations finish after few
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metres at smooth rock-walls. One beautiful discovery still awaits. The
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aggressive water has so etched out the fossils from the rocks that small ones
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now protrude several centimetres on some rock and in other places are
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recognisable as almost complete mussels. We retreat again.
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<p>About 12: we leave the bivouac-place at the cave-entrance, 1½ hours
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later we are at the parking place. About 2, we sit at the beer in the
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Loserhütte. Karl Gaisberger is also there. We talk with him about how
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exploration should continue. He had the feeling, we were not keeping the
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Ausseer cavers adequately informed of our undertakings, So it was agreed,
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that each trip would be reported to him in future at least by telephone,
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phone 06153/2262. We had always made that written until now. These
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communications seem to be in the club of the Ausseer comrades somewhere,
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however locked up internally. Wilfried received the original-plan of the cave
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so that he can supplement the new discoveries. Until we came, the cave was
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approximately 1600 m long; today, it is found to be 2.5 km, the dream-goal is
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the giant-cave.
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<hr>
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2001-08-16 13:43:09 +01:00
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2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
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