expoweb/handbook/cockup.htm

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<title>CUCC Expo Prospecting Handbook: Cock-ups</title>
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<h2 id="tophead">CUCC Expo Prospecting Handbook</h2>
<h1>Non-CUCC caves, and CUCC cock-ups</h1>
<p>These are all in area 1623.
<p>Caves with the following numbers were not explored by CUCC,
though those we have come across and can find again are recorded in
the "known caves" table.</p>

<table class="trad">
<tr><td>1-40, 42-60, 72-75, 77-79</td><td>'Austrian' caves.</td></tr>

<tr><td>41</td><td>Austrian discovery pushed by a German group, but main
exploration by CUCC, so included as "one of ours".</td></tr>

<tr><td>88</td><td>a 'German' cave - except see below</td></tr>

<tr><td>116-130</td><td>'German' caves</td></tr>

<tr><td>131-134</td><td>'Austrian' caves, out near Wildensee</td></tr>

<tr><td>166-170</td><td>not our numbers</td></tr>

<tr><td>202, 203, 206</td><td>used for ARGE finds</td></tr>

<tr><td>211-213, 221</td><td>not our numbers</td></tr>

<tr><td>236 onwards</td><td>numbers not yet allocated (as of summer 2003)</td></tr>

</table>

<h3>Cock-ups</h3>

<p>The following caves have, for one reason or another, been misnumbered by CUCC members over the years. We make no claims that these are the only cock-ups that may have occurred.</p>

<table class="trad">
<tr><td><a name="x88">88</a></td><td>Numbered in red, but didn't go. Number
reused by Austrians (for a significant cave explored by a German group).
Allegedly this number was changed to 87A or 87B, but in fact this is not the
case and this number needs to be removed. [In 2018 the number has faded so badly that you can only just see that it once said "88".]</td></tr>

<tr><td>106</td><td>This was a number which we were entitled to use, and
which we applied to <a href="../1623/76/76.htm">Eislufth&ouml;hle</a>,
an early significant find. However, the cave was written up in a
non-CUCC publication which went to the Austrians, who allocated this cave
their own number (76) since our number wasn't mentioned. This makes a lot of
CUCC documentation
confusing, but the net result is that 106 is probably not our number anymore. We
believe that the Austrians have not reused it, and in fact it appears they
still refer to Eislufth&ouml;hle as 106 in places.</td></tr>

<tr><td><a href="../1623/141.htm">141</a>,<a href="../1623/142.htm">142</a></td>
<td>These were incorrectly labelled 131 and 132 (respectively) in paint.  142 has since been corrected, but it seems 141 may still be marked 131.</td></tr>

<tr><td><a href="/cave/1623-114">114</a>
</td><td>This cave was completely missing! (found in 1980, but no
record was published - the logbook is missing). Identified as being same as cave found in 2018 and explored to 20m conclusion in 2019.</td></tr>

<tr><td>185</td><td>Apart from <a name="x185" href="../1623/185/185.html">2
Year Gestation H&ouml;hle</a> (on the col en route to 161a) which is
correctly numbered 185, there may have been <b>two</b> other caves erroneously
numbered "185".  One of these is really 186, whose marking was corrected
on <a href="../years/1997/log.htm">1997-08-13</a>.
The other is the undocumented 90/15 - the only reference
to this is in a 1990 log book write-up listing a number of caves which had
been painted during the expedition, so it seems most likely that 90/15 was a
typo and never actually existed, let alone got 185 painted on it.
To add to this mess, the real 185 was <a href="../years/1990/newent.htm">originally marked 183!</a></td></tr>

<tr><td>232 - 238</td><td><p>After the switch over to the new system whereby
caves are given official numbers only on receipt of a form and survey, the
numbers 232-5 were used for caves in the vicinity of Eish&ouml;hle, after
Robert Seebacher told us we'd be allocated these numbers so long as we got the
forms to him promptly.  However, the forms were mistakenly posted to AERW
instead of the Austrians, so Robert not unreasonably allocated the numbers to
other caves.</p>

<p>This led to some discrepancies between the Austrian's numbering and ours; these were resolved by an allocation of new numbers in 2004, detailed <a href="../years/2004/kataster2004.html">here</a>. Some old documents and survey notes may be rather confusing on this point!</p>
</td></tr>
</table>

<hr />
<ul id="links">
<li><a href="index.htm">Expedition Handbook</a> - Intro
<ul>
	<li><a href="survey/index.htm">Surveying guide</a> - Overview</li>

	<li><a href="look4.htm">Prospecting guide</a> &ndash; Overview
	<li><a href="rescue.htm">Rescue guide</a></li>
	<li><a href="rig/rigit.html">Rigging guide</a></li>
	<li><a href="photo.htm">Photography guide</a></li>

</ul></li>
<li><a href="../infodx.htm">Index to info/topics pages</a></li>
<li><a href="../indxal.htm">Full Index to area 1623</a>
<ul>
	<li><a href="../areas.htm">Area/subarea descriptions</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li><a href="../index.htm">Back to Expedition Intro page</a></li>
<li><a href="../../index.htm">Back to CUCC Home page</a></li>

</ul></body>
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[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">`
			`<html>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`<head>`
Having checked for latin1 characters, redefine meta content type from latin 1 to utf8 2022-06-22 22:59:33 +01:00			`<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf8" />`
[svn r5845] Corrected some spelling errors 2004-04-26 22:12:23 +01:00			`<title>CUCC Expo Prospecting Handbook: Cock-ups</title>`
[svn r5766] Added CSS stylesheet tags to everything in sight. 2004-04-21 10:35:34 +01:00			`<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../css/main2.css" />`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`</head>`
			`<body>`
[svn r5828] More trivialities: redid centering the initial subheading 'CUCC Expedition [XXX] Handbook' using CSS rather than hard-coding into individual pages. 2004-04-24 12:50:58 +01:00			`<h2 id="tophead">CUCC Expo Prospecting Handbook</h2>`
[svn r5845] Corrected some spelling errors 2004-04-26 22:12:23 +01:00			`<h1>Non-CUCC caves, and CUCC cock-ups</h1>`
1623 area - online edit of handbook/cockup.htm 2023-11-03 16:01:14 +00:00			`<p>These are all in area 1623.`
[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`<p>Caves with the following numbers were not explored by CUCC,`
			`though those we have come across and can find again are recorded in`
			`the "known caves" table.</p>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`<table class="trad">`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`<tr><td>1-40, 42-60, 72-75, 77-79</td><td>'Austrian' caves.</td></tr>`

			`<tr><td>41</td><td>Austrian discovery pushed by a German group, but main`
			`exploration by CUCC, so included as "one of ours".</td></tr>`

			`<tr><td>88</td><td>a 'German' cave - except see below</td></tr>`

			`<tr><td>116-130</td><td>'German' caves</td></tr>`

			`<tr><td>131-134</td><td>'Austrian' caves, out near Wildensee</td></tr>`

			`<tr><td>166-170</td><td>not our numbers</td></tr>`

[svn r5845] Corrected some spelling errors 2004-04-26 22:12:23 +01:00			`<tr><td>202, 203, 206</td><td>used for ARGE finds</td></tr>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
[svn r3786] Merged in changes from mrs30 web site. 2001-08-15 21:34:35 +01:00			`<tr><td>211-213, 221</td><td>not our numbers</td></tr>`

[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`<tr><td>236 onwards</td><td>numbers not yet allocated (as of summer 2003)</td></tr>`
[svn r3786] Merged in changes from mrs30 web site. 2001-08-15 21:34:35 +01:00
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`</table>`

[svn r5845] Corrected some spelling errors 2004-04-26 22:12:23 +01:00			`<h3>Cock-ups</h3>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
[svn r5845] Corrected some spelling errors 2004-04-26 22:12:23 +01:00			`<p>The following caves have, for one reason or another, been misnumbered by CUCC members over the years. We make no claims that these are the only cock-ups that may have occurred.</p>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`<table class="trad">`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`<tr><td><a name="x88">88</a></td><td>Numbered in red, but didn't go. Number`
			`reused by Austrians (for a significant cave explored by a German group).`
			`Allegedly this number was changed to 87A or 87B, but in fact this is not the`
STylistic rearrangements 2018-08-02 16:06:49 +01:00			`case and this number needs to be removed. [In 2018 the number has faded so badly that you can only just see that it once said "88".]</td></tr>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
			`<tr><td>106</td><td>This was a number which we were entitled to use, and`
fix up remaining URLs in static html for ${subarea} -> '1623' 2015-04-08 03:13:14 +01:00			`which we applied to <a href="../1623/76/76.htm">Eislufthöhle</a>,`
[svn r7521] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r10812: expo \| 2006-08-02 10:00:39 +0100 Update the 76 vs 106 entry. Add 141/142 vs 131/132. Expand the 185 entry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2006-09-07 03:27:38 +01:00			`an early significant find. However, the cave was written up in a`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`non-CUCC publication which went to the Austrians, who allocated this cave`
[svn r7521] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r10812: expo \| 2006-08-02 10:00:39 +0100 Update the 76 vs 106 entry. Add 141/142 vs 131/132. Expand the 185 entry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2006-09-07 03:27:38 +01:00			`their own number (76) since our number wasn't mentioned. This makes a lot of`
			`CUCC documentation`
			`confusing, but the net result is that 106 is probably not our number anymore. We`
			`believe that the Austrians have not reused it, and in fact it appears they`
			`still refer to Eislufthöhle as 106 in places.</td></tr>`

fix up remaining URLs in static html for ${subarea} -> '1623' 2015-04-08 03:13:14 +01:00			`<tr><td><a href="../1623/141.htm">141</a>,<a href="../1623/142.htm">142</a></td>`
[svn r7521] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r10812: expo \| 2006-08-02 10:00:39 +0100 Update the 76 vs 106 entry. Add 141/142 vs 131/132. Expand the 185 entry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2006-09-07 03:27:38 +01:00			`<td>These were incorrectly labelled 131 and 132 (respectively) in paint. 142 has since been corrected, but it seems 141 may still be marked 131.</td></tr>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
bad links fixed in ~waldensee caves 2021-04-05 18:30:35 +01:00			`<tr><td><a href="/cave/1623-114">114</a>`
			`</td><td>This cave was completely missing! (found in 1980, but no`
			`record was published - the logbook is missing). Identified as being same as cave found in 2018 and explored to 20m conclusion in 2019.</td></tr>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
fix up remaining URLs in static html for ${subarea} -> '1623' 2015-04-08 03:13:14 +01:00			`<tr><td>185</td><td>Apart from <a name="x185" href="../1623/185/185.html">2`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`Year Gestation Höhle</a> (on the col en route to 161a) which is`
[svn r7521] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r10812: expo \| 2006-08-02 10:00:39 +0100 Update the 76 vs 106 entry. Add 141/142 vs 131/132. Expand the 185 entry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2006-09-07 03:27:38 +01:00			`correctly numbered 185, there may have been <b>two</b> other caves erroneously`
			`numbered "185". One of these is really 186, whose marking was corrected`
			`on <a href="../years/1997/log.htm">1997-08-13</a>.`
			`The other is the undocumented 90/15 - the only reference`
			`to this is in a 1990 log book write-up listing a number of caves which had`
			`been painted during the expedition, so it seems most likely that 90/15 was a`
			`typo and never actually existed, let alone got 185 painted on it.`
			`To add to this mess, the real 185 was <a href="../years/1990/newent.htm">originally marked 183!</a></td></tr>`

[svn r7510] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r10764: expo \| 2006-07-25 08:50:34 +0100 Correct explanation of the 234, etc fuckup ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2006-09-07 03:25:52 +01:00			`<tr><td>232 - 238</td><td><p>After the switch over to the new system whereby`
			`caves are given official numbers only on receipt of a form and survey, the`
			`numbers 232-5 were used for caves in the vicinity of Eishöhle, after`
			`Robert Seebacher told us we'd be allocated these numbers so long as we got the`
			`forms to him promptly. However, the forms were mistakenly posted to AERW`
			`instead of the Austrians, so Robert not unreasonably allocated the numbers to`
			`other caves.</p>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00
[svn r6514] Mainly link fettling; also added Makefile into CVS, and put in survey data stuff 2004-09-19 23:22:14 +01:00			`<p>This led to some discrepancies between the Austrian's numbering and ours; these were resolved by an allocation of new numbers in 2004, detailed <a href="../years/2004/kataster2004.html">here</a>. Some old documents and survey notes may be rather confusing on this point!</p>`
[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`</td></tr>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`</table>`

[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`<hr />`
			`<ul id="links">`
			`<li><a href="index.htm">Expedition Handbook</a> - Intro`
			`<ul>`
			`<li><a href="survey/index.htm">Surveying guide</a> - Overview</li>`

			`<li><a href="look4.htm">Prospecting guide</a> – Overview`
			`<li><a href="rescue.htm">Rescue guide</a></li>`
Changing all the menu links to the fixed rigging guide 2019-02-27 17:08:22 +00:00			`<li><a href="rig/rigit.html">Rigging guide</a></li>`
[svn r5797] All this bloody mess now validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict. What's more, some of the obviously out of date bits have been updated, or at least notes written to warn people that the information is out of date. I couldn't be arsed to do the surveying guide as well. I've just spent about eight hours doing this, I need food! 2004-04-22 19:13:46 +01:00			`<li><a href="photo.htm">Photography guide</a></li>`

			`</ul></li>`
			`<li><a href="../infodx.htm">Index to info/topics pages</a></li>`
			`<li><a href="../indxal.htm">Full Index to area 1623</a>`
			`<ul>`
			`<li><a href="../areas.htm">Area/subarea descriptions</a></li>`
			`</ul></li>`
			`<li><a href="../index.htm">Back to Expedition Intro page</a></li>`
			`<li><a href="../../index.htm">Back to CUCC Home page</a></li>`

1623 area - online edit of handbook/cockup.htm 2023-11-03 16:01:14 +00:00			`</ul></body>`
[svn r3779] Added HTML files. 2001-08-15 19:29:27 +01:00			`</html>`